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**GordMay** · 15-06-2019, 07:33

The EPA has approved year-round sales of E15 fuel
Many people are unaware of the problems that fuels with high levels of ethanol, like E15, pose. These fuels corrode small engines, like those in boats, lawn mowers, and motorcycles, voiding their warranty and putting people at risk. And even fewer people know it’s against federal laws to use E15 in these engines.
Support “The Consumer Protection and Fuel Transparency Act” (H.R. 1024).
This bill requires information to be provided to the public about the risks associated with the improper use of E 15 fuel in certain vehicles, engines, and equipment. The bill defines E 15 as gasoline containing 15% ethanol.
Specifically, the bill directs the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to revise labeling requirements for fuel pumps that dispense E 15 fuel, including by requiring the labels of such fuel pumps to include additional details. The labels must include warning information about vehicles, engines, and equipment (e.g., boats, lawn mowers, chain saws, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and pre-2001 model year vehicles) that are prohibited from using E 15.
In addition, the EPA must implement a public education campaign concerning the risks associated with the improper use of E 15 fuel in such vehicles, engines, and equipment.

Contact your Representative and ask them to support the Consumer Protection and Fuel Transparency Act (HR 1024) by signing as a cosponsor.

HR 1024 ☞ https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...E+Act%22%5D%7D

Montanan · 15-06-2019, 08:05

Totally agree as to enhanced labeling of fuels.

I specifically pursue the use of ethanol free gasoline for all of my small engines. Before I begin pouring the fuel into my portable gas tank, I will typically start the pump using Supreme gasoline and put a half gallon or more into my vehicle gas tank and then begin dispensing the Supreme ethanol free fuel into the portable tank so as to not get any prior pumped fuel which possibly has ethanol or lower octane rating left in the hose into the portable gas tank.

From the Wall Street Journal:
"According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel. So when you pump a couple gallons of 93-octane premium after the previous customer pumped 87-octane regular, your fuel load would be diluted (not to mention overpriced)."

leftbrainstuff · 15-06-2019, 08:28

There is nothing good for end users , refiners or the supply chain about ethanol in gasoline. Above 10% you see a sharp drop in bmep. This has been well known in the industry for decades.

I remember maintaining 100% ethanol and methanol race cars in years gone by. Total PITA in terms of corrosion, fire safety and logistics. Very high octane ratings for purpose built engines was the single benefit.

It's all due to lobbying by the farm sector to lockin government subsidies.

I suspect the only way to get rid of ethanol in gasoline is to out lobby the lobbyists.

Rational and scientific arguments fall on deaf ears with the current breed of clueless politicians that dominate the first world legislatures today.

**GordMay** · 15-06-2019, 08:42

From Trade Only Today:
“Our industry’s efforts to convince the Environmental Protection Agency to reject the Trump Administration’s call for the year around sale of E15, and thereby threaten the safety of the nation’s boaters, has failed. Now we must act to diminish the damages ...”
☞ https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/colum...tect-customers

senormechanico · 15-06-2019, 11:07

Maybe someone could design a machine to de-ethanol gasoline similar to a desalinator.

The result would be a win win. Ethanol free gas and ethanol for booze without paying liquor taxes !

letsgetsailing3 · 15-06-2019, 11:42

If they're going to sell it, they should have to label it.

EDIT:

I did read this in Popular Mechanics, though:

Fuel pumps will be required to have a 4-inch-square label warning motorists not to use the fuel for uncertified engines.

AND

Gas pumps that include E15 will be marked with a small orange label.

So this proposed legislation was about specific EPA warnings being required. E15 pumps will still be labeled.

For me, if it's labeled, I'm OK with it.

**a64pilot** · 15-06-2019, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Maybe someone could design a machine to de-ethanol gasoline similar to a desalinator.

The result would be a win win. Ethanol free gas and ethanol for booze without paying liquor taxes !

ETH gasoline can’t be pumped though a pipeline, it’s blended by the Jobber, the ethanol is trucked.
It’s also denatured or rendered poisonous by Federal law, which I think started during prohibition.

**a64pilot** · 15-06-2019, 12:32

Your problem is going to be buying fuel that isn’t E15, it’s going to be hard to find, and overpriced.
I used to buy fuel from the Jobber in my home town that had no ETH in it. Fuel that he delivered to farms etc was also ETH free, if he had delivered them ETH fuel, it would have required that the tanks be either cleaned or replaced and the pumps and hoses etc replaced. Nobody wanted to pay for that, so they got fuel that was ETH free, I wanted ETH free fuel cause I put a lot in an airplane with an Autogas STC and my cars got better mileage without it, and I put a lot in our boat too.

The fuel without the ethanol. Was literally just that, fuel without alcohol added, but usually costs more to purchase, go figure.
Also I was told that the break even point of ETH was about $5 a gallon gasoline, because ETH costs so much and deliveries less BTU, and for gasoline that is less than $5 a gallon it’s actually cheaper not to add ETH to the fuel, and for that reason in States that don’t mandate it, often what is sold is pure gas. If you look at the stickers on States that don’t mandate it, it says that it MAY contain up to 10% ETH, not does contain.

**GordMay** · 15-06-2019, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

... I did read this in Popular Mechanics, though:

Fuel pumps will be required to have a 4-inch-square label warning motorists not to use the fuel for uncertified engines.
AND
Gas pumps that include E15 will be marked with a small orange label.
....

"Note how the brightly colored original warning label with easy to read contrasting text first proposed by the EPA on the left has, under pressure from ethanol lobbyists, evolved into a dull, greasy looking sticker replete with small print that should quickly fade even further into the background as it accumulates gas pump grime. This sticker is the backbone of the EPA’s “misfueling mitigation plan.” ..."
More ☞ http://www.energytrendsinsider.com/2...inal-approval/

letsgetsailing3 · 15-06-2019, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

"Note how the brightly colored original warning label with easy to read contrasting text first proposed by the EPA on the left has, under pressure from ethanol lobbyists, evolved into a dull, greasy looking sticker replete with small print that should quickly fade even further into the background as it accumulates gas pump grime. This sticker is the backbone of the EPA’s “misfueling mitigation plan.” ..."
More ☞ E15 Update: When Will it Receive Final Approval?

Very subtle.

But as long as it has to be labeled, and I know what to look for, I'm OK. I think I actually prefer the one with the big "E15" on it. I can see why the EPA is worried, though, as I have three or four bigger stickers than that on my coffee maker to warn me that it's hot, or that the plastic bag it came in was a choking hazard. Maybe the government should have just trusted me to know that coffee is hot, as then I could pay attention to the real warnings...

I'll be on the lookout for pumps making the change, and running the other way.

Montanan · 15-06-2019, 13:55

Well I guess we got to support all those cruisehuskers from the Midwest.

But frankly I would prefer to drink than combust ethanol.

Why denature triple distilled moonshine with 15% addition of gasoline?

**GordMay** · 15-06-2019, 14:16

The EPA’s final rule allowing E15, year-round ☞ https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...2019-11653.pdf

EPA’s response to comments ☞ https://www.epa.gov/sites/production.../420r19004.pdf

OldMan · 15-06-2019, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

The EPA has approved year-round sales of E15 fuel
Many people are unaware of the problems that fuels with high levels of ethanol, like E15, pose. These fuels corrode small engines, like those in boats, lawn mowers, and motorcycles, voiding their warranty and putting people at risk. And even fewer people know it’s against federal laws to use E15 in these engines.
Support “The Consumer Protection and Fuel Transparency Act” (H.R. 1024).
This bill requires information to be provided to the public about the risks associated with the improper use of E 15 fuel in certain vehicles, engines, and equipment. The bill defines E 15 as gasoline containing 15% ethanol.
Specifically, the bill directs the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to revise labeling requirements for fuel pumps that dispense E 15 fuel, including by requiring the labels of such fuel pumps to include additional details. The labels must include warning information about vehicles, engines, and equipment (e.g., boats, lawn mowers, chain saws, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and pre-2001 model year vehicles) that are prohibited from using E 15.
In addition, the EPA must implement a public education campaign concerning the risks associated with the improper use of E 15 fuel in such vehicles, engines, and equipment.

Contact your Representative and ask them to support the Consumer Protection and Fuel Transparency Act (HR 1024) by signing as a cosponsor.

HR 1024 ☞ https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...E+Act%22%5D%7D

Gord, I'm curious, do you buy fuel in the USA?