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Old 03-10-2018, 21:14   #16
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
You may want to go over to bobistneoilguy.com or other oil specific forums.
There is no difference in engine design, there is no such thing as a synthetic specific engine. Yes more modern engines have tighter clearances that allow / require thinner oil, but that has nothing to do with Syn or Dino, unless newer Toyota’s that spec an 0W-20 oil that is only available in a synthetic.
Me, I’ve just been a Motörhead all of my life, 30 yrs as an A&P mechanic and test pilot and a racer from way back, the sailing thing is new to me, motors are not.
I have to wonder though where all these “experts” come from with all their knowledge about oils, they all seem to be based on one story of an actual experience that they had, so therefore it must be true.

I mean come on, if Shell Rotella T6 was bad for older engines, don’t you think Shell would tell you to use another of their products? They have nothing to lose by doing that, and if it were bad, everything to gain, but I guess Shell doesn’t know as much about oil as some self proclaimed internet expert?
https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...3/t6-5w-40.pdf
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:42   #17
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
You may want to go over to bobistheoilguy.com or other oil specific forums.
There is no difference in engine design, there is no such thing as a synthetic specific engine. Yes more modern engines have tighter clearances that allow / require thinner oil, but that has nothing to do with Syn or Dino, unless like newer Toyota’s that spec an 0W-20 oil that is only available in a synthetic. Of course Toyota just came off of a HUGE oil sludge lawsuit, think just maybe they decided to require pure Syn oil to prevent a repeat of the sludge lawsuit?
Me, I’ve just been a Motörhead all of my life, 30 yrs as an A&P mechanic and test pilot and a racer from way back, the sailing thing is new to me, motors are not.
I have to wonder though where all these “experts” come from with all their knowledge about oils, they all seem to be based on one story of an actual experience that they had, so therefore it must be true.

I mean come on, if Shell Rotella T6 was bad for older engines, don’t you think Shell would tell you to use another of their products? They have nothing to lose by doing that, and if it were bad, everything to gain, but I guess Shell doesn’t know as much about oil as some self proclaimed internet expert?
https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...3/t6-5w-40.pdf
I doubt Shell would suggest going back to there dino oil. There profit margin is probably higher on the syn. oil. JMHO
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:38   #18
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Sorry, another oil thread

You would be surprised if you call their help desk.
I have had some very up front and informative conversations before regarding oil.
I called years ago Exxon on their Exxon elite oil whether I should shorten oil change intervals or not due to my oil temp. They pretty much laughed, said of course they couldn’t recommend any operation not supported by the engine manufacturers manual, but as far as oil went, not to worry about it, I wasn’t even anywhere near close to the oils max continuous operating temp, no breakdown or increased oxidation was happening at those temps, I didn’t have to shorten my change interval.
If they were trying to sell oil, then they would have probably told me it wasn’t a bad idea to shorten intervals.


No, I don’t think Shell would tell you to change back to Dino, it’s not as good of an oil as their T6 is. However it’s just my opinion that we don’t need it.
Just as the ultra high speed tires my Wife’s car uses are a better tire, no question, however fitting them on a Prius, you would not realize any advantage of those high dollar tires. I think we need T6 like a Prius needs high speed tires is all.

When I say we, I mean the average sailboat motor that isn’t turbocharged, and isn’t operated hard, if your a turbo and or you run the snot out of it. Your one of those that believe you need to run it hard to make it last, then you would be better served with T6.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:12   #19
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

To the last post. I've always changed oil at 100 hours but my current Yanmar 4JH4-HTE manual specifies changing oil at 250 hours or one year (after the first 50 hour change).

If the Yanmar engineers (and their lawyers) say this, am I wasting money and time changing more often? Have dino oils like the current spec Rotello T4 improved over the years such that today's 250 hours is like 30 year's ago 100 hours?
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:25   #20
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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To the last post. I've always changed oil at 100 hours but my current Yanmar 4JH4-HTE manual specifies changing oil at 250 hours or one year (after the first 50 hour change).

If the Yanmar engineers (and their lawyers) say this, am I wasting money and time changing more often? Have dino oils like the current spec Rotello T4 improved over the years such that today's 250 hours is like 30 year's ago 100 hours?
That's like cars. 7K today. I still do it at 3K.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:26   #21
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
To the last post. I've always changed oil at 100 hours but my current Yanmar 4JH4-HTE manual specifies changing oil at 250 hours or one year (after the first 50 hour change).

If the Yanmar engineers (and their lawyers) say this, am I wasting money and time changing more often? Have dino oils like the current spec Rotello T4 improved over the years such that today's 250 hours is like 30 year's ago 100 hours?
I think they can only do so much with stuff they pump out of the ground. Probably has more to do with better alloys in the components, better filtration and just better design practices in general.

But really, how much money and trouble are we talking about here? I do it once a year even though I never hit a hundred hours on my marine engines. If I started racking up more hours, I would probably stick with every 100 hour changes.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:40   #22
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

Always used Delo, but had to change to Rotella in the islands.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:14   #23
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
To the last post. I've always changed oil at 100 hours but my current Yanmar 4JH4-HTE manual specifies changing oil at 250 hours or one year (after the first 50 hour change).



If the Yanmar engineers (and their lawyers) say this, am I wasting money and time changing more often? Have dino oils like the current spec Rotello T4 improved over the years such that today's 250 hours is like 30 year's ago 100 hours?


We change our oil or get rid of the soot, any good oil far exceeds the demands our little engines have on it. At the temperatures and pressures we run at, the oil would likely last far longer than even 250 hours.
However soot and carbon are abrasive, you decide how such abrasives you’ll allow in your oil before you drain it out.
I have always used 100 hours on pretty much everything I own and will continue to change oil at 100 hours.


Gasoline engines are now a different story, no that unleaded fuel is burned and the engines run so clean, spark plugs for instance will easily last 100,000 miles, where they used it need cleaning and re gapping every 3,000 miles.
Toyota for example only specs a synthetic for their Prius and I assume other vehicles as well, and the oil change interval is 10,000 miles.
GM has for decades used GMOLS, an algorithm in their computer that calculates oil life remaining based on how you use the vehicle, it’s a brilliant system and I assume Patented or something cause I’d assume all vehicles would go that way.

However our little Diesels are still dirty burning things that nasty up their oil, so no matter how good the oil is, you need to change it frequently to get rid of the dirt.

However if your interested in extended oil change intervals, look into a bypass filtration system, it’s an additional filter that as it only filters a fraction of the oil at each pass, can filter to a very fine level, a full flow filter without being too restrictive can only catch rocks if you will
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:16   #24
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

We use Shell Rotella 15W40 non synthetic in our two Yanmar 3JH4E’s. 3000 hours on these engines, oil changes at 100 - 120 hours.

Oil analysis in the lab (Fluid life, Edmonton, AB) each oil change comes back showing healthy oil & engines.

I’m a big fan of oil analysis at approx $30 cdn per sample.
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:08   #25
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

I've been wondering about oil for a while; My little raw water cooled 2QM20 runs on 30wt monograde – what I'm hazy about is the multigrade aspect of oil – I would think a 15-40 oil would be 40wt when cool and thin to 15wt when heated to operating temp but I've a suspicion it's actually the other way around which would explain why multigrade oil is not recommended for low temp. raw water cooled engines.
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:19   #26
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
I've been wondering about oil for a while; My little raw water cooled 2QM20 runs on 30wt monograde – what I'm hazy about is the multigrade aspect of oil – I would think a 15-40 oil would be 40wt when cool and thin to 15wt when heated to operating temp but I've a suspicion it's actually the other way around which would explain why multigrade oil is not recommended for low temp. raw water cooled engines.
I believe it is based on lubricating ability at different viscosities as a result of heat. If 30wt. works for you stick with it.
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:36   #27
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

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Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
I've been wondering about oil for a while; My little raw water cooled 2QM20 runs on 30wt monograde – what I'm hazy about is the multigrade aspect of oil – I would think a 15-40 oil would be 40wt when cool and thin to 15wt when heated to operating temp but I've a suspicion it's actually the other way around which would explain why multigrade oil is not recommended for low temp. raw water cooled engines.
Yes, you suspicion is correct, it is the other way around.

A multigrade oil is thin when cold and thickens when hot, so it acts like 15wt cold and 40wt when hot. For actual the temperature points, you need to refer to the manufacturer or the SAE.
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:37   #28
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Sorry, another oil thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehows View Post
I've been wondering about oil for a while; My little raw water cooled 2QM20 runs on 30wt monograde – what I'm hazy about is the multigrade aspect of oil – I would think a 15-40 oil would be 40wt when cool and thin to 15wt when heated to operating temp but I've a suspicion it's actually the other way around which would explain why multigrade oil is not recommended for low temp. raw water cooled engines.


Actually what it does really is it’s viscosity is more stable across different temps. It doesn’t really thicken up, it resists thinning out as it gets hot better than a straight weight oil.
It’s not a different oil of course, it’s a straight weight oil that has had viscosity improvers added to it. There are actually many additive packages to the average oil, VI or viscosity improvers is just one.

However if your oil doesn’t get hot the VI package doesn’t really come into play.

This is where a real synthetic oil can be completely different, a Syn oil can act as a multi vis oil without any additives, it can be just as a function of its makeup be much more viscosity stable over a much wider range of temps than a Dino oil can, and this is one thing that can make a real Syn oil much better for hotter running engines, like a turbo for example.
Then it’s important to know that some synthetic oil, really isn’t, as with everything else in the modern world we are lied to, I’m sure some consider the definition of synthetic to be different than others.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:43   #29
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

I think turbine engines use an Ester base synthetic oil? I don't think it works in anything but a turbine engine either.
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Old 04-10-2018, 15:48   #30
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Re: Sorry, another oil thread

In case you don't have it, here is the relevant pages from the 2QM20 service manual.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2QM20 Oil.pdf (534.1 KB, 31 views)
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