serious discussion about electric power in large boats

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by zloitapok

Ok, I got you. I have a stationary ICE generator onboard, but I use it very rare - only at long passages (330-340 km). Solar panels and shore power do the most of job to charge batteries.

Exactly what I have been trying to say in a clumsy way. No doubt I will need to go on a long passage (75 NM is long for me) every once and a while. Most of those once in a while times will be covered by sailing for the most part and so I just need a solution for those rare times.....and I cannot be without such a solution.
In my case, since it will be a race boat 99% of the time, I want the solution to be removable. The solution for me will be a suitcase generator either propane or gasoline powered to augment the batteries and get me to where I am going. Is this as perfect as firing up the diesel, no. Is firing up the diesel as perfect as an electric to get out to the race course no.

[double u]

BTW: the term “green“ in the context of the average recreational sailboat or “yacht“ is absolutely, utterly laughable, ridiculous & hypocritical.
Unless we are talking about a dugout canoe, built with a stone adze out of driftwood, of course. The builder eating windfall apples...

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by double u

BTW: the term “green“ in the context of the average recreational sailboat or “yacht“ is absolutely, utterly laughable, ridiculous & hypocritical.
Unless we are talking about a dugout canoe, built with a stone adze out of driftwood, of course. The builder eating windfall apples...

I strongly disagree. You can paint any boat or yacht in camouflage green, looks ugly, but hey, you can make a statement....

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by double u

BTW: the term “green“ in the context of the average recreational sailboat or “yacht“ is absolutely, utterly laughable, ridiculous & hypocritical.
Unless we are talking about a dugout canoe, built with a stone adze out of driftwood, of course. The builder eating windfall apples...

Double, what point made here are you trying to argue? In my view, most anything we do as humans can be argued about as you are doing but why would we do that? Should we chastise you for using all that electricity, plastics, and precious metals to surf the web and interact?
In my view, sailing as a whole is very green compared to most recreational activities we modern people practice and thinking about doing it with even less fossil fuels is better so why not celebrate that?
Green is a continuum and I would rather be somewhere on it helping the environment to the degree I can. If we want to pick at threads, why don't we encourage all consumers to really reward companies manufacturing in greener ways by buying their products rather than simply reacting to price and brand. Business gives us exactly what we want or they go out of business.

Dan

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I strongly disagree. You can paint any boat or yacht in camouflage green, looks ugly, but hey, you can make a statement....

Indeed. My GF's boat has a green hull. A deep forest green. Doesn't look too bad. It is for sale, BTW, if anybody wants to own a green boat.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by double u

BTW: the term “green“ in the context of the average recreational sailboat or “yacht“ is absolutely, utterly laughable, ridiculous & hypocritical.
Unless we are talking about a dugout canoe, built with a stone adze out of driftwood, of course. The builder eating windfall apples...

This one is fairly green

[john61ct]

It is a lot easier to live an authentically "green lifestyle" on a boat, as long as it's full time and you don't also continue to support housing etc back on land.

Of course it's also possible to create a huge footprint on a big yacht, but still likely less than the same wealthy household consumes while resident on land.

In any case personal lifestyle choices are purely symbolic at this point, only radical political / spiritual revolution on a national global scale will have any chance of reducing the scale of the catastrophe we're creating for ourselves and especially future generations.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by john61ct

It is a lot easier to live an authentically "green lifestyle" on a boat, as long as it's full time and you don't also continue to support housing etc back on land.

Of course it's also possible to create a huge footprint on a big yacht, but still likely less than the same wealthy household consumes while resident on land.

In any case personal lifestyle choices are purely symbolic at this point, only radical political / spiritual revolution on a national global scale will have any chance of reducing the scale of the catastrophe we're creating for ourselves and especially future generations.

100% Agreed! (well, for a sailboat I guess). ;-)

[john61ct]

Many trawler liveaboards are pretty thrifty with fuel.

Compared to commuting every day in a private vehicle, heating / cooling a McMansion.

etc etc, land dwelling USians use a **lot** of resources, especially those in the upper income/wealth brackets.

[double u]

“...authentically green...“ ROFL!
Anything on your boat not made of crude oil is made of aluminium, stainless or steel, your engine burns fossil fuels, your bottom paint is poisonous and rare earths metals are distributed thoughout the boat.
GREEN, my a..!
(BTW: our boat is just alike, but we wouldn't dare using “green“ in it's context)

[jmh2002]

I think most normal people can understand that "Green" is a relative term... ie: more Green or less Green than the commonly used possibilities.

[john61ct]

Yes, reducing consumption of scarce resources and lowering carbon production, does not have to mean going back to a primitive lifestyle, or even sacrificing too much comfort and convenience.

Just means being smart, design thinking for whole systems rather than heedlessly selfish.

Likely needs to be done using more technology not less.

[CatNewBee]

More technology always means a larger footprint, any activity makes it worse, not better.

If you really want it green, you have to crawl back in the cave and reduce the population and life expectancy of humans to the figures during the stone age.

Technology is the cause for growing population and resulting pollution.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

If you really want it green, you have to crawl back in the cave and reduce the population and life expectancy of humans to the figures during the stone age.

The only thing--animal, vegetable, or mineral--of which there is no shortage on this planet is human beings.

[john61ct]

Yes population reduction, and an economic system that can provide for the population well while rapidly shrinking are definitely required.

Saying these things are "impractical" is insane.

They are required for our survival, so needs must.