Seized Yanmar

[CrazyCanuck]

I have put an offer on a sailboat in the Caribbean and am in the process of doing my due diligence. All was going well until the Yanmar Mechanic went to check out the engine. It turns out to be ceased after sitting on the hard for 3 years.



The mechanic has put some undisclosed fluid in the cylinders to try and free it up. My questions is this; what should I be concerned with should the engine get to roll over? Is there any specific things I should be checking following getting a diesel engine un-ceased? Any advice is appreciated.

[Cheechako]

Normally, an engine should not be seized from just sitting that long. is it in the water? maybe it got water in one cylinder. Or maybe that happened before storing? The risk is that he will break it free and in the process break a piston ring or piston. The engine may run but you wont know if it has issues until hours down the road via oil consumption, hard starting or etc.

Personally I would likely discount the price, assume the engine as no good until proven otherwise. A compression test would be good, but to do a diesel engine you need a fitting to go in the injector hole with a screw on gauge, unlike a gas engine where you can hold the gauge to the spark plug hole.

All I can really say is when you go to inspect it, tell them you must be able to have the engine running. This can be done with a garden hose in the sea strainer while it's stored ashore if necessary.
The Caribe is such though that you may get there and they are not prepared to do what you ask. This is why boats located in the third world are less money.

[tkeithlu]

Welcome to the forum, Crazy.

I second everything Cheechako said, and add that at the minimum when he gets the engine un-seized that he run it and then run a compresssion check, as defense against the sort of problems Cheechako describes.

[CrazyCanuck]

Thanks for this advice. The boat has been on the hard for the past 3 years and remains there today. I like to idea of a compression check. How long should the engine be run, if it gets freed up, in order to check for problems?

[Wotname]

Be aware it isn't always the piston/rings that cause an engine to be seized.

E.G. a rusted bearing rusted to the shaft of a gear driven raw water pump will effectively 'seize' an engine. This can happen after siting for 3 months if the seals have been previously leaking.

BTW, some Yanmar models use gear driven pumps and some are belt driven.

[chris mac]

At minimum I would suggest a mechanic tear it down and partial rebuild. But full rebuild or replace is where I would be expecting in terms of negotiation.
I do know a fantastic diesel mechanic in whitby if you are in need

[CrazyCanuck]

Thanks to all who provided great advice. I have been following this form for a while and just recently joined. I was impressed by the vast depth of knowledge within the form. My first attempt at accessing this tremendous resource did not disappoint.

[dhenline]

I would agree with what has been previously mentioned. Even if they unseize the engine, it will likely have problems. I also agree with the idea of a complete tear down and rebuild of necessary parts before completing the purchase. It will never be easier to do, then now when it is on the hard and Not your boat. Once you take possession, the problems are now yours.
I would assume the from a pricing point of view, that the boat will require a new engine.
keep us informed with what the sellers are willing to do

[Lepke]

At the least the cylinder will have rust pits where the ring seized. It could run fine for a long time, but will see increased ring wear in whatever cylinder seized. If only one ring seized you may not get blowby depending on the compression spacing.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck

Thanks to all who provided great advice. I have been following this form for a while and just recently joined. I was impressed by the vast depth of knowledge within the form. My first attempt at accessing this tremendous resource did not disappoint.

What model Yanmar engine?

[CarlF]

Run away!

Yanmars do not seize if stored properly. And a boat with a seized engine from a mechanical problem prior to storage should be listed that way by any responsible seller or broker. It should never be a "surprise".

If the owner didn't care enough to do this, what else did he not care enough about?

Cruising sailboats are very complex machines that go down hill quickly if not continually maintained. This maintenance can't stop during storage.

This boat is likely worth less than nothing.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Run away!

Yanmars do not seize if stored properly. And a boat with a seized engine from a mechanical problem prior to storage should be listed that way by any responsible seller or broker. It should never be a "surprise".

If the owner didn't care enough to do this, what else did he not care enough about?

Cruising sailboats are very complex machines that go down hill quickly if not continually maintained. This maintenance can't stop during storage.

This boat is likely worth less than nothing.

+1 Run away......

[RaymondR]

Looking at it from a glass half empty viewpoint you'd run away.

But from a glass half full viewpoint you have a wonderful opportunity to use the problem to obtain a very cheap boat, say if a replacement engine is $x and you can get the vendor to accept two or even three $x reduction in the asking price.

Get a valuation from an independent source and offer half.

The aforesaid assumes the engine is not the most valuable part of the boat.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Run away!

Yanmars do not seize if stored properly. And a boat with a seized engine from a mechanical problem prior to storage should be listed that way by any responsible seller or broker. It should never be a "surprise".

If the owner didn't care enough to do this, what else did he not care enough about?

Cruising sailboats are very complex machines that go down hill quickly if not continually maintained. This maintenance can't stop during storage.

This boat is likely worth less than nothing.

Yeah - I don't want to be alarmist, but this sounds like a boat I saw up here in Toronto that had had a hard grounding and was immediately towed and put on the hard.

A year later, the owner was trying to sell it (to me) and as I went through the boat, casually scrutinizing the damaged areas without comment, I thought to myself "this guy has no idea how much trouble this boat is in."

I think CarlF has got straight to the wicket on the first ball. The boat is not proximate, which means you'd be relying on so many distant-others to vouchsafe this (normally excellent) engine's condition - and ultimately, three months after your purchase it might turn out to be a lemon after all and you'd be in for $10-20,000 in engine replacement costs (assuming you'd want to stay with Yanmar or Beta)....

Carefully, carefully consider this. It seems to be a bigger crapshoot than you're realizing.

Good luck and do let us know how you get on,
Fair winds,
LittleWing77

[CrazyCanuck]

Update:Thank you to all who have responded to this post. Lots of thoughtful advice.


To WotName: it is a 4JHE.


To CarlF: In defense of the Broker who has been very upfront and helpful; the boat was put up on the hard approximately 2 years before he got the listing. I believe the ceased engine was as big a surprise to both him and the owners as it was to me. You do raise a good point about storage maintenance.



To LittleWing77: Interesting enough this boat was originally from Toronto. I also live not far from there. Here is how I am getting on.


I emailed the repair shop working on the ceased engine and asked for a quote to rebuild or replace the engine. They called me on New Years Eve. Basically they have recommended against rebuilding the engine. Their reasoning is that although the inside will be like new all of the exterior components are about 35 years old. If things like the heat exchanger or injection system fail I will be into about the same cost as a new engine. They also recommend replacing the transmission at the same time. Cost for new engine is $10,000. Cost for heavy duty tranny is $4,000. labor to re & re is $2,000 to $2,500. So all in about $16,500.US.



I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the repair shop's advice?


Even if the mechanic is able to free up the engine I am skeptical about going forward with the purchase based in the advice provided on this form. I am debating on whether to reduce my offer to cover the cost of replacing the engine as suggested by RamondR or just walking away as suggested by Orin Jim.



Decisions, Decisions!