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Old 04-12-2020, 09:40   #1
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Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

Our Volvo D2-40F starts-up and runs perfectly. It idles smoothly, and it engages the prop at forward idle speed (throttle "detent" position) just fine. When I advance the throttle beyond the forward detent, however, the prop does not speed up. The engine speeds-up predictably, but the prop remains turning at idle speed. This weird delay lasts, oh, 10-15 seconds, THEN the prop "catches" and speeds-up to match engine speed.

As you can imagine, particularly when maneuvering in close quarters (eg. waiting for a bridge, backing into a slip, etc), this can be disastrous, to have forward propulsion wait to kick-in whenever it feels like it!

Once it "catches," though, the prop paces with engine speed correctly. Every time I go to neutral, though, we start the whole fiasco over.

It's a Volvo 130S saildrive. I just changed the oil and found that the old oil had some water in it (gray color). It may have been like that for a while, since I took-over maintenance of this boat just a month ago.

Does anyone know why a saildrive might experience a delayed response like this? The problem was first noticed just a week ago when backing into a slip. I shifted to forward speed to arrest the boat's motion, and didn't get any slowing. "Tapped" the dock pretty hard!

Thanks in advance for your responses!
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:47   #2
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by PaintedKite View Post
Our Volvo D2-40F ..... idles smoothly, and it engages the prop at forward idle speed (throttle "detent" position) just fine.

When I advance the throttle beyond the forward detent, however, the prop does not speed up. The engine speeds-up predictably, but the prop remains turning at idle speed. This weird delay lasts, oh, 10-15 seconds, THEN the prop "catches" and speeds-up to match engine speed.

As you can imagine, particularly when maneuvering in close quarters (eg. waiting for a bridge, backing into a slip, etc), this can be disastrous, to have forward propulsion wait to kick-in whenever it feels like it!

The problem was first noticed just a week ago when backing into a slip. I shifted to forward speed to arrest the boat's motion, and didn't get any slowing. "Tapped" the dock pretty hard!
Based on the description, it initially sounds as though it shifts from FWD, N, REV while idling just fine. The scope of the issue sounds like the delay is in acceleration of the throttle, not the shifter.

If how I understand it is correct...why would you need so much throttle to dock. I only ever go from Fwd, N, Rev at idle speed. Only occasionally do I need to actually advance the throttle when close quarter maneuvering.

If you are going so fast, that shifting into gear does nothing and you you need to get a fistful of throttle to control speed or direction, it honestly sounds like you're coming into the dock too hot.

Now I'm not saying that you should have such a delay. I simply think you might have two issues here.
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:50   #3
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

Most likely cause is a shift linkage that is out of adjustment.
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Old 04-12-2020, 15:48   #4
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

Painted Kite,

The grey water means you have a seal that is not sealing out the sea water. There is probably additional wear and corrosion in there, and more water coming in, now, if the seals were not renewed.

Ten to fifteen seconds is a very long lag time.

I think your saildrive is going to need some serious maintenance. WHERE is the salt water getting in? WHAT are all the damages?

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like an expensive time in the offing. Friends with a saildrive have made a plug for their boat, so that engine and saildrive can be removed for maintenance, which limits their hardstand time, as they can be re-launched when the engine and saildrive are out, and return when it comes back for installation.

Ann
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Old 04-12-2020, 16:05   #5
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

Does your sail drive prop have a rubber bush in it and what are the splines like?

Oh and is it a fixed bladed prop or a folding/feathering type?

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Old 04-12-2020, 17:44   #6
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
... it honestly sounds like you're coming into the dock too hot.
You understand the issue correctly. Yes, I like to come into the dock absolutely as slow as I can. No question! But one does need to maintain steerage. And I need a knot or so of flow over the rudder to steer properly. Plus, often conditions require a fair amount of speed to counteract wind, current, etc. So then, yeah, you need a short burst of 2000rpm forward throttle to arrest the motion.

This is the way it is taught for Med Mooring in the Adriatic. Come in with serious positive control & maneuverability, then stop the backward motion with forward throttle.
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Old 04-12-2020, 17:47   #7
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Does your sail drive prop have a rubber bush in it and what are the splines like?

Oh and is it a fixed bladed prop or a folding/feathering type?
Can't answer the first question. (Not sure I understand it, actually.). Regardless, we're getting hauled-out on Tuesday, and I'll have a look.

For your second question, Pete, it's a 2-bladed, fixed prop.
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Old 04-12-2020, 17:53   #8
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Most likely cause is a shift linkage that is out of adjustment.
That was my first thought, too, Jammer. But no. All the throttle linkages -- on both the engine and the saildrive -- work correctly.

Moving the throttle lever from neutral to forward idle (or reverse idle) acts only upon the saildrive. It just engages either the forward gear or the reverse gear. This works correctly.

Additional throttle lever movement acts ONLY upon the engine, raising rpms. (This works correctly, too.) Once the saildrive is engaged, the prop should just follow engine speed. This is what is NOT working.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:04   #9
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

There is a clutch pack in the 130S, it could be slipping, and it looks like at least somewhat of a known problem with the units:

Quote:
AB Volvo Penta

SE-405 08 GŲteborg
Sweden

Service Bulletin


Group Number Version

44-1 85

Changed oil quality recommendation for S-drives:

130S-A, 130S-B, 130SR-A, 130SR-B, 150S-A, 150S-B, 150SR-A, 150SR-B

Binder: Date: 10-2010

SAE 15W40
ONLY 3306 301 026
P0014226

Page: 1(1)

Volvo Penta has changed the recommendation for oil quality in S-drives.

S-drives manufactured September 2010 onwards will have a sticker with the information "SAE 15W-40 ONLY" attached in connection to the oil filler.
Older drives have a sticker with the text "ATF OIL ONLY".

Volvo Penta recommends that all S-drives change from ATF oil to engine oil SAE 15W-40 at next oil change.

It is possible to replace oil without laying up the boat, please refer to the Operatorís Manual. However, with this method some ATF oil will remain in the stern drive.

For problems concerning sliding / delayed engagement Volvo Penta recommend change of disk package and replacing the oil with engine oil SAE 15W-40.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:05   #10
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
There is probably additional wear and corrosion in there...

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like an expensive time in the offing.
Yes, Ann, this is where my thinking is now, too. (Sorry to say it.)

We're getting hauled-out on Tuesday and have a Volvo-certified outfit coming in to remove the saildrive, take it to their shop, pull it apart and see what's going on. I'm certain we'll need some new parts.

I'm examining whatever exploded diagrams of the saildrive internals I can find online, but so far have gained no further insight.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:08   #11
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by PaintedKite View Post
That was my first thought, too, Jammer. But no. All the throttle linkages -- on both the engine and the saildrive -- work correctly.



Moving the throttle lever from neutral to forward idle (or reverse idle) acts only upon the saildrive. It just engages either the forward gear or the reverse gear. This works correctly.



Additional throttle lever movement acts ONLY upon the engine, raising rpms. (This works correctly, too.) Once the saildrive is engaged, the prop should just follow engine speed. This is what is NOT working.


If you have checked the linkage and it seems to be okay (you can pull it off and move the shift lever by hand to be sure) then my guess would be the clutch plates are slipping. The good news is the repair can be completed in a day in the water, but it does require to move the engine forward to disengage the sail drive. Replacing the clutches is best done by an experienced mechanic, need a press to pull the assembly apart and to reassemble.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:18   #12
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
There is a clutch pack in the 130S, it could be slipping, and it looks like at least somewhat of a known problem with the units:
Thank you, Dsanduril. This is a 2016 unit and has always been on 15W-40. And, yep, I'm thinking the clutch pack will need to be replaced.

It's still a mystery, though, why it grabs positively and immediately at idle speed engagement, then MAINTAINS THAT PROP SPEED while engine speed is increased.

That's the part I can't figure-out.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:25   #13
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Thank you, Dsanduril. This is a 2016 unit and has always been on 15W-40. And, yep, I'm thinking the clutch pack will need to be replaced.



It's still a mystery, though, why it grabs positively and immediately at idle speed engagement, then MAINTAINS THAT PROP SPEED while engine speed is increased.



That's the part I can't figure-out.


I had a similar issue. Clutches would engage at low rpm (and low torque) but would start to slip at much over 1000rpm. I could maneuver at the dock, but couldnít use it to drive boat. Fortunately we are a cat, so could rely on the other engine.
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:39   #14
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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The good news is the repair can be completed in a day in the water, but it does require to move the engine forward to disengage the sail drive. Replacing the clutches is best done by an experienced mechanic, need a press to pull the assembly apart and to reassemble.
Whoa. Wait. What?
Really?

That's a very compelling opinion, sir! Of course, to "move the engine forward" is not like falling off a log. Still sounds like a huge task. It's not like the thing is on runners or something. It seems that it's anchored to the hull with just 2 big bolts (into vibration isolation mounts) on the forward end. Then, of course, on the aft end, it's bolted to the saildrive, which is mounted to the hull.

Would moving it forward require rigging? Dry weight of the engine is 148kg/326lb. Or can it be "manhandled"?
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Old 04-12-2020, 18:58   #15
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Re: Saildrive slow to "pick-up" on forward throttle

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Originally Posted by PaintedKite View Post
Whoa. Wait. What?

Really?



That's a very compelling opinion, sir! Of course, to "move the engine forward" is not like falling off a log. Still sounds like a huge task. It's not like the thing is on runners or something. It seems that it's anchored to the hull with just 2 big bolts (into vibration isolation mounts) on the forward end. Then, of course, on the aft end, it's bolted to the saildrive, which is mounted to the hull.



Would moving it forward require rigging? Dry weight of the engine is 148kg/326lb. Or can it be "manhandled"?


Moving the engine is not that hard on my boat. I pull it up slightly with the main halyard and then slide by hand. Have to disconnect the exhaust and the motor mounts but not much else, it only needs to move a couple of inches. The hardest task it to reengage the splines on the saildrive with engine on reinstall. There is an oil seal you donít want to damage.
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