Repower costs... what am I missing?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by GILow

Australian refurb.

Not entirely unlike an Italian tuneup.

True story, I was walking through a yard in Queensland and saw a Cat with both its engines sitting under it. I asked the owner if they were repowering. He said no, just repainting them to put the boat up for sale.

[moseriw]

Oh folks - believe me I know what I am talking about. At the sge of 18 (1978) I did go through the procedure of refurbishing the engine and gearbox of an vintage car.

And almost everything I did by myself

I drive a 22 year old non electronics car (and I am an IT-Pro) and killed the engine myself about three years ago. The engine was - so called refurbished - in Croatia for around 1200 USD.
I have the next 80.000 km on it and it is OK. Bit I am sure they did not do a good job.

As said, when it is closed you can not verify it.

My old Lehman 85 hp (1981) works like a charm - I am sure it has not been rebuilt since. When it will be necessary I will do it and will watch every hand on my engine.

Why?
1800 rpm, no turbocharger, no electronics and built twice as strong as new engines. A good old steel block (not aluminium)

And it is not only the block itself, it is the whole other equipment that has to be "renewed" ..."Raw water pump", heat exchangers, alternator, injector pump.

These are in summary the real expensive parts - especially the reconditioning of the injector pump can rise up to 1500 USD

Remember:

Quality management is (nowadays) for selling the SATISFIED customer the cheapest possible scrap!

[malbert73]

I think I’d only rebuild an old diesel >30 years old if there was no “like replacement”. For the Lehman’s cited above that may be the case- in that size may have to get turbo or common rail. But in midsize range a new Beta/Kubota gives you industrial low revving engine and all the parts are brand new. I think a better way to go than rebuild

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I think I’d only rebuild an old diesel >30 years old if there was no “like replacement”. For the Lehman’s cited above that may be the case- in that size may have to get turbo or common rail. But in midsize range a new Beta/Kubota gives you industrial low revving engine and all the parts are brand new. I think a better way to go than rebuild

A lot of the reason that there are many of those old diesels around is that they were so solidly built that in boating service they will outlast the rest of the boat. Why swap something which was designed for long life and the low cost durability which provides reliability in the marine environment for a modern engine designed as a throw away with expensive and complex electronic systems poorly suited to the marine environment.

You can do a head job, new pistons and liners on some of those old Cummins for the cost of a new electronic injector on some of the modern common rail diesels.

[Cheechako]

I too would likely rebuild an old Perkins or Lehman. But there is that thing about never quite being able to make something old "as new" overhauling old things.

[GILow]

An of course, a rebuild is ok if you can get parts. The whole reason I am replacing my engine is parts are pretty well made of unobtainium.

[Cadence]

JMHO, an old solidly built sleeved engine is worth a rebuild. Mechanical injectors run off the cam shaft leave the turbos and reel injeftors to the high speed go fast boats.
Parts are probably available any place in the world.
OK, maybe not as economical fuel wise but maybe long term it works out. We, I believe are speaking of sail boats not power boats.

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by GILow

An of course, a rebuild is ok if you can get parts. The whole reason I am replacing my engine is parts are pretty well made of unobtainium.

As I said, you can rebuild almost every engine as the required bearings exist or can be made without much extra cost. And Gaskets? one can cut them without any problem. Valves and piston rings - same.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by moseriw

As I said, you can rebuild almost every engine as the required bearings exist or can be made without much extra cost. And Gaskets? one can cut them without any problem. Valves and piston rings - same.

Sorry, but no. You cannot. And you’d have to have rocks in your head to be dependent on an engine while cruising that needed access to specialised machine shops, highly skilled engineers and a whole load of TIME.

I do not want to be sitting in some half forsaken port at the back end of nowhere trying to find someone who can fabricate the failed bits of my engine’s injector pump.

This purist rebuild-it-at-all-costs theory has no basis in real world cruising.

And frankly, I’d rather have a sweet, quiet, modern diesel purring away in my engine room than some archaic monster that took me six months to find a valve guide and another six months to find someone who could install it.

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

A lot of the reason that there are many of those old diesels around is that they were so solidly built that in boating service they will outlast the rest of the boat. Why swap something which was designed for long life and the low cost durability which provides reliability in the marine environment for a modern engine designed as a throw away with expensive and complex electronic systems poorly suited to the marine environment.

You can do a head job, new pistons and liners on some of those old Cummins for the cost of a new electronic injector on some of the modern common rail diesels.

I am sure it is like you said.
I dont think they are poorly suited to the marine environment

but I think there is a lesson every boat owner should have learned:

"Things I don't have can't brake!"

And this is the most important rule at sea.

[moseriw]

GILow
sorry but you compare apples with pears.
A rebuild should be planned properly as a complete failure is not a sudden event unless someone refuses servicing.

And once rebuilt one can not change some parts - they are built in and shall work the next 50 years.

Most technicians nowadays are replacers - not repairers. Means you pay for a new injection pump but a professional repair would do it within 2-3 hrs and maybe 50 USD of parts.

And it is YOU who have to know which technics is built in and where you get the parts. With my Lehman it is Lancing Marine UK and around 10 chandlers in the US/CDN.

Getting the parts by parcel express services is a matter of 3 to 14 days nearly everywhere in the world.

And I bet a local technician with a new engine won't get the parts by next morning too.

SO WHAT?

[moseriw]

Rule two:

"Things I am not able to repair myself or can be replaced by a backup I am able to repair by my self should not be on the boat."

[GILow]

Whatever fruit you choose, my engine parts are long gone.

I’m getting a decent engine. Enjoy your dinosaur.

[skipperpete]

I support RaymondR,s views in post 94. Common rail electronic Diesel engines have no place aboard the cruising yachts that are the basis of this forum..........coastal cruisers around US and European waters, no problem because they will generally have access to dealership technicians and diesel fuel of known quality.
A diesel engine that needs DC power to keep running......rather than just for starting, should be cause for concern and , unlike automotive electronic engines , our boats, engines and electronics systems are vulnerable to lightning strikes as well as salt water, humidity and spray.
If ANYTHING causes the CPU or any of the sensors to fail, we will not be able to repair it at sea and in many countries you will be flying in the Volvo or Steyr or Cat or MTU technician with his laptop and $10,000 worth of injectors and electronics just to MAYBE solve the problem of your dead engine.
I’m Ok with the inevitability of fully electronic engines, ....... but not just yet for cruisers on a budget and a with need for a reliable engine upon which their lives may well depend.

[moseriw]

GILow : which engine?