Repower costs... what am I missing?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

.



Otherwise we are comparing apples with fish fillets.

Yummy!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yummy!

Curious - what rotation is your existing setup and is it the same as the proposed Beta?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Curious - what rotation is your existing setup and is it the same as the proposed Beta?

Clockwise and yep.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

Clockwise and yep.

Sorry to have asked but this issue has caught out others (but not me - yet...)

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by ob44

I am repowering my Tartan 40 and yes, labor will be at least $9k. As for your ability to do it yourself in a week’s time for the cost of parts, I say good for you! I do not have the expertise, the time (I still have a job), tools, and a shed in which to perform the work. Boatyard labor in the Northeast US typically runs $90 - $100/hr. That is reality.

I was lucky to repower my T40 for about 5500 in labor and parts above price of engine and gearbox. The Beta 50 was a perfect replacement for the yammer 44 4jhe that came out so engine beds were unchanged. But I also hired a freelance mechanic who I think undercharged labor- 40 hours at 100 per but I think he spent more than 40

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Refurbished can mean a multitude of things.

No in fact it can not!



Refurbishing means:
Everything will be dismounted. Every bearing and gasket will be replaced
the crank will be serviced, the cylinders smoothened, new piston rings and the valves replaced or rebedded.


And for the dumb the whole block will be sanded and painted nicely

And therefore the engine isnot as good as new... the engine IS NEW.

And this procedure is possible for almost every engine no matter if it was built in 1850 or 1980 - Yes I did say 1850!!!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by moseriw

No in fact it can not!

Refurbishing means:
Everything will be dismounted. Every bearing and gasket will be replaced
the crank will be serviced, the cylinders smoothened, new piston rings and the valves replaced or rebedded.


And for the dumb the whole block will be sanded and painted nicely

And therefore the engine isnot as good as new... the engine IS NEW.

And this procedure is possible for almost every engine no matter if it was built in 1850 or 1980 - Yes I did say 1850!!!

I don't disagree that it's possible and if done correctly is darn near good as new (I still won't call it good as new).... but your definition only holds true if you spell out exactly what is included. If you don't it can vary wildly.

And that assumes they actually do what is specified...once she's closed back up, the owner really only sees the paint job...and that can be iffy if they didn't properly prep for the paint.

[Fore and Aft]

I always thought a new coat of paint and changing the filters was considered a rebuild!
Cheers

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Herb Shallcross

Two guys. with at least minimum competence should be able to get an engine out in four hours. One hour of heavy equipment and operator time. If the job is competently managed the new engine is sitting on the dock next to the boat. Another two hours to measure and fabricate the mounts. Another hour of heavy equipment and operator time to lift the engine in, three hours to align and bolt the engine up. Two guys, eight hours even at $200/hr.=$3200 plus $600 for the forklift and operator is $3800. The contractor has the chance to survey the job to see if there is anything completely unexpected before making the estimate, so what honest, reasonable explanation for the $9000 labor cost beyond the fact that boat owners are cash cows?

4 hour for removal ...if nothing is ceased up and there is easy access to remove.
New engine sitting on the dock...what about the time to check it out on delivery and prep it for installation?

As far as fabricating and aligning....If you are on the factory floor and every boat is identical and you are installing 3-4 motors per week...sure. When you are dealing with random issues on a boat they've never worked on before time can spiral.

Spending a few hours ahead of time surveying the job...was that included in the estimate? How does the mechanic get compensated for that?

If it's a small simple mechanical diesel with no extras added and a really easy to access engine bay
yeah, you might get it down to $3-4k. Once you start adding complications, it goes up quickly and you don't stay in business long if you don't account for those unexpected items.

And don't forget the guys sometimes drop things....a bit of fiberglass work to repair damage can add quite a bit and the owner won't be paying if he didn't drop the motor.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I always thought a new coat of paint and changing the filters was considered a rebuild!
Cheers

Save the filter money and go for a Dulux Overhaul!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by moseriw

No in fact it can not!



Refurbishing means:
Everything will be dismounted. Every bearing and gasket will be replaced
the crank will be serviced, the cylinders smoothened, new piston rings and the valves replaced or rebedded.


And for the dumb the whole block will be sanded and painted nicely

And therefore the engine isnot as good as new... the engine IS NEW.

And this procedure is possible for almost every engine no matter if it was built in 1850 or 1980 - Yes I did say 1850!!!

Well, you seem to have an odd idea about what "new" means!

In your example the crank is "serviced" What does that mean? Perhaps grinding to the first undersize or perhaps just a surface polish. Sure not a new crank in my eyes.

New rings? Sure, but OLD pistons.

Bores "smoothened"? Ridge removed and honed to first oversize? Needs new pistons, t hen, or perhaps sleeves are replaced... better, but adds to the cost.

And how about the block itself? If the engine was raw water cooled, and many still are, there is corrosion and/or deposits within the coolant passages. Can be "boiled out" but then cylinder walls are a bit thinner... surely not "new".

And "rebedding" valves does not make t hem new nor does it improve pitted seats very well.

And so on for many other parts, like the injector pump, oil pump and camshaft/lifters.

So, while "refurbishing" can add many useful years to an engines life, it does not even approach making it new again.

Jim

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, you seem to have an odd idea about what "new" means!



In your example the crank is "serviced" What does that mean? Perhaps grinding to the first undersize or perhaps just a surface polish. Sure not a new crank in my eyes.



New rings? Sure, but OLD pistons.



Bores "smoothened"? Ridge removed and honed to first oversize? Needs new pistons, t hen, or perhaps sleeves are replaced... better, but adds to the cost.



And how about the block itself? If the engine was raw water cooled, and many still are, there is corrosion and/or deposits within the coolant passages. Can be "boiled out" but then cylinder walls are a bit thinner... surely not "new".



And "rebedding" valves does not make t hem new nor does it improve pitted seats very well.



And so on for many other parts, like the injector pump, oil pump and camshaft/lifters.



So, while "refurbishing" can add many useful years to an engines life, it does not even approach making it new again.



Jim

Well stated Jim. An engine can be made “new” again but at an astronomical cost...... far beyond the cost of an actually new engine from any of the well known builders.

[jimbunyard]

Well....as noted and as usual it depends on definitions -- and the engine's manufacture.

In the strictest definition of the word, new = unused (which of course leaves out the engine that sits, unsold, in storage for 5 years) it's hard to call most rebuilt/refurbished/remanufactured engines 'new'.

Some engines can indeed be made 'as new', because every wear part is replaceable. Two cycle Detroits come to mind; the disposable, planned-obsolescence design philosophy has put paid to most of these types of engines, at least in the scale and range engine to which we're referring.

Perhaps the case for the 'superiority' of a 'seasoned' block over a 'new', fresh-from-the-mill block (or crank) might be too contentious for discussion here on CF...

[skipperpete]

Does anyone have any info on the aircraft engine “zero hours” overhaul? How extensive/expensive is that rebuild?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I always thought a new coat of paint and changing the filters was considered a rebuild!

Cheers

Australian refurb.

Not entirely unlike an Italian tuneup.