Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2020, 08:18   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 58
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Sometimes there are good reasons for the high costs of doing work on boats. On a R&R of a diesel engine less than 1,000 pounds, a charge of $9,000 is nutso. It should take no more than one day to do this job if the mechanics are competent and experienced. Now, if there were problems not mentioned in the post, it could cost a lot more. Personally, I think you have to be a darn good DIY guy to be a sailor and own your own boat. But never forget that much of cost of any project on a boat is the high cost of skilled labor. For myself, I go to shipyards in other countries for work I am too lazy to do myself. The shipyard workers in Honduras are just as good at woodworking as anyone in the USA, for example, and charge 20% for the same job. Now, I tend to do everything I can on my own boat because it is my conception that you have to know everything about your boat for safety. I removed, completely overhauled, and replaced my own diesel engine. It was not difficult or prolonged. The most expensive part of that job was having a professional put in new valve seats, seals, and valves. The parts were Yanmar expensive but when it was all done I knew it was reliable and I could do most repairs myself. You have to learn your boat to be a safe sailor. Paying someone to do a job you can do yourself keeps you ignorant - ignorance is dangerous when far from land.
__________________

lituya1617 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 08:29   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

The original question was, why $9000 for just the labor? Businesses have costs, but that is factored into the labor rate.

$9000 sounds pretty high unless you are paying for people who spend an inordinate amount of time scratching their backside, uncertain what to do.

Two guys. with at least minimum competence should be able to get an engine out in four hours. One hour of heavy equipment and operator time. If the job is competently managed the new engine is sitting on the dock next to the boat. Another two hours to measure and fabricate the mounts. Another hour of heavy equipment and operator time to lift the engine in, three hours to align and bolt the engine up. Two guys, eight hours even at $200/hr.=$3200 plus $600 for the forklift and operator is $3800. The contractor has the chance to survey the job to see if there is anything completely unexpected before making the estimate, so what honest, reasonable explanation for the $9000 labor cost beyond the fact that boat owners are cash cows?
__________________

Herb Shallcross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 08:37   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CT
Boat: 40 Ocean trawler "Crew's Inn"
Posts: 22
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Not too many years ago I paid a highly competent marine mechanic to reverse the locations of my port and starboard engines, Perkins diesels, in order to accommodate the change to a more efficient and less vulnerable transmission model on both.
His first day he pulled both engines and we set them on the floor of the salon which I had reinforced with supports from below. Then a week followed during which I simply bolted on the new transmissions after removing the old and general cleanup and low skill work around open engine space. After this delay my mechanic came back and reinstalled and aligned both engines in opposite locations. My best recollection of this bill somewhere around $15-$1700 for his work. The engines were simple critters and I did electrical starter fuel line throttle cable stop cable both before pulling the engines and after depositing in new locations. At $800 or so per day he seemed content and so was I. The only special requirement by this mechanic was that I not be aboard the boat during either of his procedures
skipperguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 08:43   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Delray Beach FL/Geneva OH
Boat: Niagara 35/C&C 38 Mark I
Posts: 2
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

I repowered 10 months ago installing a 3YM30ae. The professional installer did all the work from extraction to rebuilding the mount to installation. The labor bill was $4100. Haul, launch and crane time lifting the old out and new one in were separate at about $700. All this was done near Palm Beach Florida. Seems you are correct. $9000 is not justified.
Manganinnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 09:08   #65
Registered User
 
HeinSdL's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Switzerland
Boat: X-Yachts X442
Posts: 157
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperguy View Post
The only special requirement by this mechanic was that I not be aboard the boat during either of his procedures
What was the reason given for not wanting you there? Insurance?
HeinSdL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 09:38   #66
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 510
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

If you have an good old diesel with arount 1800 rpm WITHOUT turbocharger refurbish it.
depens where you are but engine refurbishin is possible at aroud 6000 USD.


An the engine is as good as new by then.
moseriw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 09:55   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Franklin, Ohio
Boat: Homebuilt schooner 64 ft. Sold.
Posts: 1,159
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Well here is a story for you, and the reason I like to work with independent mechanics. I have a four cylinder Ford tractor which ran good. But after letting it set in a shed over winter it wouldn’t start. Being busy I decided to trust my local Ford tractor company to get it running. I knew it wasn’t anything serious. And here is what they did: pull distributor, reset points and reinstall weights as previous owner had installed them wrong. Clean spark plugs ( not even install new) and four new plug wires. I had previously drained gas tank and flushed some new gas through, they did the same. They cleaned the air cleaner. Done. Their shop rate was $90 and hour. They charged me for over 11 hours, Bill was $1250 and I was pissed. I complained to the manager that any mechanic could have done that work in 6 hours easy. No satisfaction, I had expected a bill of around $600. I guess I need a lesson like that every 15 years to know to stay the hell away from larger businesses like that. Gouge city.
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 10:10   #68
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 510
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
They charged me for over 11 hours, Bill was $1250 and I was pissed.

Lessons learned?


1.) Never ever get rid of an old tractor diesel - they are faboulous.
2.) Never ever let an professional do your job.


ad 2.) I am sure that we can do 95% of the work ourselves but we need 3 times as long as we do not believe what we think we know - we check it first and work after a good plan.

Hint:
a thing you can not repair by youself shall not be on board or can be backed up by something simple. (like paper charts!)
moseriw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 10:53   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 216
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
In one discussion of repowering a 40 foot sailboat there was general consensus on $20K (I assume US dollars) to fit a new 30 - 40 HP diesel. But the breakdown of costs was what caught my eye, with nearly half the cost listed as labour.
I don't think that cost is way out of line.
For one, mechanics need to make a living. And parts are extremely expensive. An exhaust manifold for my four cyl. is about $1,500, for example.
Where can you get a new diesel, engine mounts, exhaust, etc. for less than $12,000 if you do it yourself?
Unless you have a way to pull the engine yourself our local crane charges $300 for the tow and another $300 just to pull the old one and lift the new one in then take you back to your slip.
Maybe, you could argue that the shop rate for marine mechanics is high.
Another way to look at it, is my diesel is 50 some years old and running strong. Dividing the 20K by that is cheap propulsion.
Poche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 11:16   #70
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 22,477
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

It is hard to figure sometimes for sure. I know on small powerboats, you can get a rebuilt GM 350 CI engine from a well known company for ~$1600. Installation would be above that. Yet other engines are way more money. That's because the GM 350 was so widely used in cars , trucks and boats I guess.
The obstacles to installing an engine in a boat are hard to predict and many. So I suppose estimates are always high to cover that. It's often the case with anything... you want a firm estimate? $xxxx , you want me to just get it done? $xxx. But only if it's an honest source.... and that's the rub.

I had an engine repaired in my catamaran in the Virgin Islands. It required removal of the 3 cylinder engine. They came and took it out, big guys lifted it right out onto the dock after all the peripherals were off including the head.. It only took a couple of hours work to remove and they didn't gouge me at all. But compare that with a larger engine buried under the cockpit of a center cockpit boat and it's apples and oranges.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 11:21   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Franklin, Ohio
Boat: Homebuilt schooner 64 ft. Sold.
Posts: 1,159
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw View Post
Lessons learned?


1.) Never ever get rid of an old tractor diesel - they are faboulous.
2.) Never ever let an professional do your job.


ad 2.) I am sure that we can do 95% of the work ourselves but we need 3 times as long as we do not believe what we think we know - we check it first and work after a good plan.

Hint:
a thing you can not repair by youself shall not be on board or can be backed up by something simple. (like paper charts!)
Not understanding your thought process at all. 1. My tractor is gas, not diesel.
That is like saying you should have paid $10,000 for your wife’s wedding ring instead of $5000.
2. I am not saying never let a professional do your job. I am saying if at all possible do not let a professional work on your job if he is working for a large company. If you do you can expect to pay at least double what is a fair and profitable price. The manager in my case started to defend his mechanic and I said , hell, I have no problem with your mechanic, I have a problem with your bookkeeper!!
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 14:07   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Freeport Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau Idylle 15.5 (Moorings 51)
Posts: 31
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw View Post
If you have an good old diesel with arount 1800 rpm WITHOUT turbocharger refurbish it.
depens where you are but engine refurbishin is possible at around 6000 USD.

So you would say a Perkins 4.236 (non Turbo) with 10,000Hrs is better to go with refurbished than re-power with a Yanmar/Beta?
Ben51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 15:25   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 216
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben51 View Post
So you would say a Perkins 4.236 (non Turbo) with 10,000Hrs is better to go with refurbished than re-power with a Yanmar/Beta?
I would, no hesitation. And 10,000 hours is low mileage unless it was neglected.
Poche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 15:31   #74
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 8,675
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben51 View Post
So you would say a Perkins 4.236 (non Turbo) with 10,000Hrs is better to go with refurbished than re-power with a Yanmar/Beta?
Refurbished can mean a multitude of things.
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2020, 17:21   #75
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 11,020
Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Shallcross View Post
The original question was, why $9000 for just the labor? Businesses have costs, but that is factored into the labor rate.

$9000 sounds pretty high unless you are paying for people who spend an inordinate amount of time scratching their backside, uncertain what to do.

Two guys. with at least minimum competence should be able to get an engine out in four hours. One hour of heavy equipment and operator time. If the job is competently managed the new engine is sitting on the dock next to the boat. Another two hours to measure and fabricate the mounts. Another hour of heavy equipment and operator time to lift the engine in, three hours to align and bolt the engine up. Two guys, eight hours even at $200/hr.=$3200 plus $600 for the forklift and operator is $3800. The contractor has the chance to survey the job to see if there is anything completely unexpected before making the estimate, so what honest, reasonable explanation for the $9000 labor cost beyond the fact that boat owners are cash cows?
I touched on some aspects earlier but the following needs repeating - there are often many other aspects to be considered.

Even a simple one like Another two hours to measure and fabricate the mounts. This to me seems very quick. Decent paint takes much longer than that to dry, add multiple coats and sand blasting etc. Personally I galvanise engine beds but I get that other's are happy with paint. If SS, then it still needs passivating etc.

Shaft may need to shorten or a longer one fitted. Exhaust may need changing or re-routing. Could need a new prop if shaft rotation has changed. Raw water may need upsizing or relocating. Fuel lines and return could require rework; morse controls likewise.

Otherwise we are comparing apples with fish fillets.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
repower

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Crew wanted, share costs, surfing cruise Nias, Indonesia to Phuket share costs surfmachine Crew Positions: Wanted & Available 4 23-01-2020 22:28
Crew Wanted: Crew wanted, share costs, surfing cruise Phuket to Sumatra return share costs surfmachine Crew Positions: Wanted & Available 19 18-01-2019 15:36
repower or two repower Immanuel General Sailing Forum 4 07-05-2012 09:24
engine repower costs? sgtPluck Engines and Propulsion Systems 21 08-04-2008 03:07

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.