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Old 27-01-2020, 00:47   #16
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

For sure, simple things like installing the new instruments on the dash can really ad to the costs depending on the owner. Do you tolerate being able to see where the old gauges were or do you refinish the whole dash? The single lever engine control mount can often be fudged by hiding the old holes with a peice of perspex or stainless steel then mounting the engine control again. Those extras are not really that discretionary, more like preventive maintenance I think. It is way easier to replace everything while there is no engine in the way. Like you said before its mainly labour and the material costs between a good and average installation is not that much.
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Old 27-01-2020, 00:50   #17
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Funny is that the six cylinder 120hp Nissan? A roberts 45 I surveyed today had one.
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Old 27-01-2020, 00:55   #18
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
For sure, simple things like installing the new instruments on the dash can really ad to the costs depending on the owner.

Actually, I’m keeping my whole dash. It is way nicer than the new one.

There’s a big labour saving move.
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Old 27-01-2020, 00:59   #19
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Repower costs... what am I missing?

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Funny is that the six cylinder 120hp Nissan? A roberts 45 I surveyed today had one.

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That’s the SD33. Apparently a bit smoother than the ED33, but, to quote a rather good 4WD forum...

“Not enough torque to pull the skin off a rice pudding.”

Most of what I have read suggests the ED33 was the better engine, but it’s a brutal, noisey and rough monster with one or two “smooth” rpm ranges and a hell of a lot of rough ones in between.

If you haven’t already cautioned the prospective owner, be aware that getting parts for these engines is getting very hit and miss. Which is why mine is going to the great engine bed in the sky.

Edit: Actually, thinking about that, it must be a different donk. The SD33 produced less power than the ED33. Maybe one of the later Nissan’s? Specs suggest a TD422. Or a really ancient LD28T if it had a turbo.
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Old 27-01-2020, 02:24   #20
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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I was glancing through some posts here and was reminded of something that has been bothering me.

In one discussion of repowering a 40 foot sailboat there was general consensus on $20K (I assume US dollars) to fit a new 30 - 40 HP diesel. But the breakdown of costs was what caught my eye, with nearly half the cost listed as labour.

This tallied with numbers I have heard before in general discussions around boats.

I don’t get it.

I’ve removed and replaced my 96HP, 420 kg diesel engine myself, fabricated a whole new engine mounting system, replaced or redesigned the engine cooling system while I was at it, made a new transmission cooling setup and a new exhaust system and it only took me a week.

I wish I could charge $9K for a week’s work.

I mean, the parts list should be pretty minimal for a new engine. Every model I’ve looked at is totally self contained for cooling etc and just needs to be fed fuel in one pipe, seawater in another and be connected to an exhaust pipe for the results of each to leave the boat. No more work than I did for my existing engine and surely a lot less.

Sure, engine mounts are variable but I fabricated mine in about three hours, that’s all four including new steel bearers on the boat side. I tack welded them together with my little MIG and handed them to a local engineer with a 3 phase welder who zapped them together for $20 cash.

Is it REALLY such a difficult job that people are being slugged with the sorts of costs I am hearing about or am I missing something else?

This question is not academic. I am repowering in a month or so and the issue is on my mind.
Shop rates are probably for a diesel mechanic versed in replacements are probably on the order of $100-150/hr. That's 60-90 hrs of work. (and yes with overhead, that's not an abusive profit margin by a long shot).

You can bet for a good portion of the job, you will have two guys working on it (minimum) to deal with lifting heavy objects into place. As a DIY guy if you take a risk and drop the engine, that's on you. If the mechanic does it, they are paying for and if OSHA catches them doing something stupid, the penalties can be high.

But I bet when you include all the prep work before the main job and then odds and ends clean up after the job, you probably put a lot more hours in than 60-90.

For claiming that you ran a business, the lack of understanding of how things get priced up is surprising.
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Old 27-01-2020, 03:00   #21
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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For claiming that you ran a business, the lack of understanding of how things get priced up is surprising.

Or, perhaps the fact that I was able to run that business purely on word of mouth indicates that my pricing approach was a good alternative.
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Old 27-01-2020, 03:07   #22
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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Or, perhaps the fact that I was able to run that business purely on word of mouth indicates that my pricing approach was a good alternative.
No even running on word of mouth, understanding pricing and overhead is a fairly basic part of running a business.
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Old 27-01-2020, 03:19   #23
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Repower costs... what am I missing?

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No even running on word of mouth, understanding pricing and overhead is a fairly basic part of running a business.


Ok, so let me spell out how I dealt with the issue, since my old industry is dead and buried, I don’t mind giving away my secrets.

I was a systems installer, dealing with SMEs.

Nobody wants to touch them because they are bad payers and if things go pear shaped you end up holding server inventory, and nobody got rich by having last month’s mid size IBM server sitting on their shelf.

So I turned to the disties and said “I don’t want a percentage, my clients will buy direct from you at the price you would have given me because you know I’ll be supporting the system. “

So I missed out on 10%.

BUT, I never lost money on a job because I was never out of pocket more than the cost of the petrol to get me to the job.

AND, I was never short of customers because SMEs are price sensitive to all crap (they make boaties look like cash flashers) and they could not believe the hardware costs were so low. I got dozens of clients who’d baulked at the inflated hardware costs from other integrators but were thrilled with my system price.

So enough of the patronising innuendo. I honestly don’t care if you think I ran a business or not, but I do know there’s more than one way of doing it. Which clearly you don’t.
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Old 27-01-2020, 03:26   #24
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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Ok, so let me spell out how I dealt with the issue, since my old industry is dead and buried, I don’t mind giving away my secrets.

I was a systems installer, dealing with SMEs.

Nobody wants to touch them because they are bad payers and if things go pear shaped you end up holding server inventory, and nobody got rich by having last month’s mid size IBM server sitting on their shelf.

So I turned to the disties and said “I don’t want a percentage, my clients will buy direct from you at the price you would have given me because you know I’ll be supporting the system. “

So I missed out on 10%.

BUT, I never lost money on a job because I was never out of pocket more than the cost of the petrol to get me to the job.

AND, I was never short of customers because SMEs are price sensitive to all crap (they make boaties look like cash flashers) and they could not believe the hardware costs were so low. I got dozens of clients who’d baulked at the inflated hardware costs from other integrators but were thrilled with my system price.

So enough of the patronising innuendo. I honestly don’t care if you think I ran a business or not, but I do know there’s more than one way of doing it. Which clearly you don’t.
Fun story but totally irrelevant to how overhead is factored in on labor.

I've dealt with similar operations in my industry. Small companies with 1 or 2 guys can undercut overhead compared to larger companies. They often take risks they don't understand but can get away with it for years because the risks are often rare events with major impacts. I've also seen it go pear shaped when those risks come back to bite them.
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Old 27-01-2020, 05:45   #25
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

5 year old prices. New Yanmar 3YM usd7,500. Remove old Volvo and install Yanmar came to a total, including engine, of usd12,500. Took a long week of work, >40hrs.
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Old 27-01-2020, 06:50   #26
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

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5 year old prices. New Yanmar 3YM usd7,500. Remove old Volvo and install Yanmar came to a total, including engine, of usd12,500. Took a long week of work, >40hrs.

Seems a similar ratio to what others are relating.

What “additional” work would you say was done? New exhaust etc?
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Old 27-01-2020, 06:56   #27
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

We repowered our Bristol 29.9 two years ago with a beta 16, (great engine) labor costs were a big part of it, plus, consider that you may need the following done, engine bed modifications, shaft length change, propeller change, maybe new drip less seal, maybe new shaft bearing, maybe new exhaust system needs, maybe needing to remove cabinetry to do the job, on top of the engine cost, then the skilled labor to remove the old engine, install the new, and very importantly having a yard with the knowledge and skill set required to do it all correctly. It is a big job, so have a chat with the yard manager about hourly rate and expected man hours to complete the task. Frankly we were very happy with the yard that did our repower, not cheap, but they do very good work, and in hind sight worth every dollar, we would recommend them to others. Granted we have different boats, but that if you are curious we listed out the cost in our blog.

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Old 27-01-2020, 07:03   #28
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Also remember that you must dispose of the old engine

Many times this means that the old engine must be decontaminated before it can leave the shipyard

This decontamination and disposal costs money
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Old 27-01-2020, 10:07   #29
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

Ah, but GI:

Don't forget that you have two things working in your favour: 1) you are an indomitable Ozzie and 2) you are used to working with your hands :-)!

So what's a wimpy, pencil pushing Canuck (or any other nationality), who takes his car to the filling station just to have the tire pressures checked, to do?

Here's what: Pay someone - if necessary, through the nose - to have it done.

Then, of course, there are some among us (I'm not one) who in the time it takes to do a decent re'n're can earn more by pushing pencils than they can save by a DIY re'n're.

Anyhow - the OP asked for a realistic estimate. He got it :-)

Cheers

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Old 27-01-2020, 10:35   #30
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Re: Repower costs... what am I missing?

I didn't do a new engine install, just the moved the engine 8" to the rear. Had to do some engine bed work, fabricate a couple of new attachments for the mounts to the block, and reroute all the lines and hoses, new shaft, shaft seal, etc. I worked with a mechanic doing most of the grunt work myself. Labor and machining came to more than $2,000. If I'd been at the mercy of a boatyard, cost would have easily doubled and probably tripled that. $10,000 for installing a different engine, if you are doing it hands off, isn't out of the question
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