replacing universal with a Yanmar engine

[g.smyth]

I have a 1981 O'Day 34 with a universal 5424. I need to replace the engine and I am leaning towards a Yanmar 3YM30AE. I have the specs on both engines. I Know I have the room and the beds need to be packed in a little bit. But I am struggling with figuring out what the bed heights should be. Does any one have experience with this. thanks! Glenn

[tkeithlu]

You didn't ask, but I'm going to say it. Changing to a different engine means hoses, engine mounts, control cables, and electrical connections are all in the wrong places, and may become a monumental PITA.

Back to your question.

Eventually, every thing depends on the aligned location of the axis of the drive shaft at the flange behind the transmission. That's a point in space plus the angle of the drive shaft.

Have you got a lateral and plan drawings of the new engine, with a scale? Then either use an engineering rule or a metric rule and a calculator to determine the location of the bottom of the engiine mounts, including angle, from the axis of the drive shaft coming out of the transmission. Do the same with a plan view. That locates your engine mounts in space, and they sit on the bed.

Doing this from the engine rather than from the drawings could in itself be a PITA.

Good luck with it.

[wingssail]

We changed from a Westerbeke to a Yanmar. The engine dealer (who is located at a boatyard with dock space) supplied the engine and changed the beds and mounts.

They did not do a lot of engineering ahead of time. After determining that the width was less on the new engine and that the height was greater (the mounts on the new engine were higher on the block) they knew it would fit.

With the old engine out of the way they lowered the new engine into the space and keeping it suspended they attached the shaft flange and then proceeded to built beds and mounts to fit. To accommodate the narrower engine they had steel extensions made which bolted onto the engine and allowed the original bed spacing to fit the narrower engine. The key point being: The new engine was smaller in size. None of this was rocket science.

This was completed in four days, 25 years ago, and has been fine.

BTW, I disconnected my old engine, wires, hoses, shaft, etc myself, in one day, and towed the boat to the boat yard dock. After they changed the beds and mounts and installed the engine, including aligning it to the shaft, I fetched the boat and reconnected the hoses and had it running in one day. So, start to finish, 6 days. I'd say that it helped that our engine sits in the middle of the salon. Once you pull off the engine box it is entirely accessible.

[tkeithlu]

What an ingenious way to do it! Thanks for posting that.

[g.smyth]

thanks for the advice. I have already checked exhaust, and water hose sizes and locations they are all good. we are adding a new control panel and the control cables are on the same side of the engine. I will look at the drawings and try to determine the height and angle of the shaft connection. Glenn

[Cheechako]

Isn't the Universal a Kubota? If it is, is there a direct fit Beta instead of a Yanmar?

"Came across this parts list for the Kubota L245 tractor and thought I would pass it along. The L245 has the Kubota D-1101 engine which is equivalent to the Universal M30/5424. I just picked up a set of glow plugs at my local Kubota dealer ~for $8 each. Torresen wanted $80 a pop.
The 5424 is the engine in my 82 Oday 34"

[Compass790]

Maate ( buddy in American) I'd listen what Cheechako is saying, tho you shouldnt have to buy any parts for a fair while with a new engine, Yanmar will ream you much more than a Beta/Kubota for everything, think oil & fuel filters.
No association with Beta & I did hear of a hx problem on new Beta that required legal action to resolve but they have changed hx suppliers now I believe.
I know what I would choose after dealing with Yanmar , only have experience with older models but I'm assured the parts pricing extortion scheme has not altered.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Maate ( buddy in American) I'd listen what Cheechako is saying, tho you shouldnt have to buy any parts for a fair while with a new engine, Yanmar will ream you much more than a Beta/Kubota for everything, think oil & fuel filters.
No association with Beta & I did hear of a hx problem on new Beta that required legal action to resolve but they have changed hx suppliers now I believe.
I know what I would choose after dealing with Yanmar , only have experience with older models but I'm assured the parts pricing extortion scheme has not altered.

I think this concern is overstated. 26 years ago I replaced my Westerbeke with a Yanmar. Since then I have purchased Yanmar filters and a few other parts. I am sure that the filters cost more than others perhaps but it doesn't amount to much. I've always found aftermarket filters which were much less expensive, and occasionally I've used them. Usually I buy Yanmar filters.

As for other parts, I've purchased a starter, (it was a few hundred dollars but since then I found an aftermarket starter which was more reasonable) a fuel pump, a head gasket kit (which I didn't use and later resold), and an oil seal which I bought from a auto parts store and a fresh water pump which I don't recall was being outrageous. So, in 26 years and over 6500 hours, Yanmar parts have not been that dear for me. On the other hand, the engine has been reliable. I do not regret choosing Yanmar.

[Compass790]

Yes no argument they are good engines in the older models such as you had 26 years ago+ you are US. based so parts are 1/2 of our local price but still many multiples of an equivalent industrial engine part.
Not sure about the current era of Yanmars
I do admit I'm miffed with Yanmar after they wanted NZ$630 about US $400 for a conrod for our YSM8.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Compass790

...you are US. based so parts are 1/2 of our local price...

Just to note, I have never ordered a Yanmar part in the USA. we have always been overseas and I have used sources for Yanmar parts from in countries.

[tkeithlu]

Wingsail, perhaps you missed something. The concern was for what Yanmar charges for parts that are available on the general industrial market. I can pay $1200 to Westerbeke for a starter for my Universal M25 genset, or $69.90 for the same starter from Amazon.

The lesson is important, I think. The manufacturers (Yanmar, Westerbeke) have to stock parts that they took off the industrial shelf when they designed their engine. They don't design their own peripheral parts like starters, pumps, and glow plugs. They have very little market for them, so their parts storage costs balloon. If you can find the identical part, as you did, on the industrial market, it's cheap. A throttle solenoid for my M25 was another $1,200 until I found it on a heavy truck repair website for $125.

[Mickeyrouse]

Having worked in manufacturing, I can confirm that the spare parts side of any manufactured item is gravy to the manufacturer. My employer manufactured municipal gate valves, with about 20% mark-up on direct cost. Parts however, enjoyed a minimum 300% mark-up, in some cases up to 1000%.
Yanmar is one of the very few, if not only, marine engine manufacturers that actually produce the complete engine. Just about all others marinize short blocks, adding bolt-0n peripherals such as starters, alternators, raw water pumps, filters, temperature and pressure switches, marine gear, heat exchangers, lift pumps, etc. These marinizers typically manufacturer or sub-contract instrument panels, brackets, hoses, wiring harnesses. Components are assembled, painted, a tag is added, a manual is printed, and shazaam! an engine is “ manufactured”.
I do not mean to belittle the process of marinizing an engine- after all, it is more than I can do- but if we understand just what our engines are it can certainly help in economical parts sourcing.
My experience is 30 years of Westerbeke. They have always been a marinizer of short blocks. In my time with the Red Beasts the blocks have been Perkins, Mitsubishi, and Isuzu. Other than a couple gaskets, a transmission cooler, and mixing elbows, I don’t think anything I have ever serviced or replaced was uniquely manufactured by Westerbeke. It has been very helpful to learn the OEM’s of everything as to both expanded availability and cost of parts. It is surely worthwhile finding out.