Replacement to Volvo OEM filter 3840525

[NordicCruiser]

Hi all,

When original OEM filters are not available or too expensive, I refer to MANN Hummel filters, as they are also used by many car manufactures as OEM and they are good quality.

When i look up the cross reference on MANN's homepage, they list their WK 712/98 filter. So far so good.

However when make a double check, and use the Volvo number on the Hengst filter page, you get a Hengst filter H14W32. Cross referencing this on Mann's page, shows a filter 712/83

The difference is the pressure of the bypass valve. (Both have a return block with the same specs.)

WK712/98 = 0.8 bar (as of Volvo number)
WK712/83 = 1.6 bar (as of Hengst filter reference for Volvo Number)

That is strange, as both Mann and Hengst filters show up under the same same volvo number.

So here we have the risk / uncertaincy in using alternative parts. Does anybody know the pressure of the original filter valve?

Another drawback with the Mann and Hengst is, that they are not available in white paint, so an oil leak is being visible much faster.

[a64pilot]

The only danger to the engine from a bypass valve is having one that is set at too high a pressure so that in a situation where bypass is needed (cold oil being most usual) there won’t be a bypass, and I seriously doubt that any common not special filter could do that.
If the bypass pressure is lower than Spec it just means that the filter will be bypassed more often and for longer times.
Bypass occurs of course as a differential pressure, not total pressure, so I wouldn’t worry about it, I believe you will be fine with either filter.
I assume both have a back flow valve as that has become I believe common on most all filters.

Too many people select filters based on thread and gasket size for it to be an issue in my opinion, average Joe doesn’t know enough to look for bypass pressure settings, and I have never heard of engine damage from an incorrect bypass pressure, doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but if it does I bet it’s exceedingly rare

[NordicCruiser]

@a64pilot Thanks, that was an interesting point with the differential pressure. So it means, when the engine has 5 bar oil pressure and the bypass value i 1.6, the pressure valve will first open at 6,6 bar?

And yes, to your previous question, both filters have a back flow valve stated with 1 bar.

But it would really be interesting to know who produces the original filter for Volvo or Perkins. Those two are the same procuer I assume, both white, just painted with Volvo or Perkins, as the D2-55 originally is also a Perkins engine.

[kenbo]

I always thought that the main purpose of the bypass valve was to let unfiltered oil through the filter when the media became clogged.

[Dsanduril]

The Perkins 404 range (base for some of the D2 engines) uses Perkins oil filter 140517050. A cross from that will get you the VP 3840525 and both 712/83 and 712/98. Best I can tell, the Perkins filter has a 0.8bar bypass valve. Can't say that's definitive, always a chance that Volvo specified something other than the original Perkins. We do run a Perkins filter most of the time (D2-40), they run about $7.

[NordicCruiser]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Best I can tell, the Perkins filter has a 0.8bar bypass valve. Can't say that's definitive, always a chance that Volvo specified something other than the original Perkins.

It looks like 0.8 is the right one then. Because if you look up the Volvo number on the MANN page, the W712/98 comes and this one has also 0.8 bar.

Thx

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by NordicCruiser

@a64pilot Thanks, that was an interesting point with the differential pressure. So it means, when the engine has 5 bar oil pressure and the bypass value i 1.6, the pressure valve will first open at 6,6 bar?

And yes, to your previous question, both filters have a back flow valve stated with 1 bar.

But it would really be interesting to know who produces the original filter for Volvo or Perkins. Those two are the same procuer I assume, both white, just painted with Volvo or Perkins, as the D2-55 originally is also a Perkins engine.

No the bypass valve will open when the pressure differential between the inlet and outlet of the filter meets spec. So for one with a 1.5 bar spec when the filter causes in excess of 1.5 bar restriction, the valve will open.

Almost always the actual manufacturer of OEM components like filters will vary from time to time, often the manufacturer lets out a bid to buy x number of filters and publishes a spec, this bid goes out to many filter manufacturers. Whoever will supply the filters that meet spec at the lowest price is the manufacturer for the contract period, although sometimes other factors other than price may effect who is chosen, like availability for instance, or past performance.
Now some manufacturers I’m sure have a relationship with certain suppliers and tend to always buy from them.
The aircraft manufacturer I worked at was this way, and most often it was due to purchasing being lazy. They simply ordered from the same place time after time. I busted that up and required them to supply me with three prices for the same component, and you would be surprised at how often we were being way overcharged. I guess they had figured out that we would pay what was charged without question.
Bigger manufacturers I’d bet are smarter and less lazy than we were and I’d assume do shop prices.

[a64pilot]

Filters are like most things, some are near junk. And some are exceptional quality.
Fram has the reputation of being junk, but I hear they have a new filter that is excellent.
In my opinion Mobil 1 and K&N are among the best, but Purolator, NAPA Gold, Baldwin and many others are actually excellent filters.
I don’t know about European brands, sorry.
Often to many people’s chagrin OEM filters etc are not necessarily very good, but often very over priced.

[Compass790]

What he said in post #2
I use a variety of different filters on my engine as I buy them at auction. Engine wasn't originally fitted with a spin on oil filter, had a metal leaf screen but I fitted a remote oil filter mount.
All the different filters I've used seem to work, no problems so far. You can have different micron ratings but that can be checked often. In our case the original metal leaf screen works out to 45 micron approx & all the spin-ons I've checked are 35 or less so better anyway.
Buy a spray can of white paint if you want a white filter.

[NordicCruiser]

Thanks for the clearification on the bypass valve.

Indeed, that could be the case that the OEM filters are not always best quality. The MANN looks to me like a very good aftermarket part. Mobil1 I have not seen yet here in Europe it does not seem common here. And you are right with the over price. The original Volvo filters are really expensive, you get them much more cheaper from Perkins directly.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by NordicCruiser

Thanks for the clearification on the bypass valve.

Indeed, that could be the case that the OEM filters are not always best quality. The MANN looks to me like a very good aftermarket part. Mobil1 I have not seen yet here in Europe it does not seem common here. And you are right with the over price. The original Volvo filters are really expensive, you get them much more cheaper from Perkins directly.

Yes we have the same problem with Yanmar parts here in NZ. You can get the same thing for 1/8 of the Yanmar dealer price.

I'm not aware of any marine engine manufacturer that makes their own filters. It's marketing BS that the dealer will tell you you MUST use their branded products. However if necessary to preserve the warranty you may have to bite the bullet.
Talking to a marine engineer recently he said that he scratched the paint on a large diesel engine filter that cost $300 from the dealer with the engine name on the filter & it had a different coloured paint underneath from a well known large filter manufacture & further paint removal uncovered the part no.
Needless to say it was a lot cheaper from the filter manufacturer.

I would try to match the physical size of the filter or go bigger tho as if smaller it might not last until the drain interval. Matching micron rating probably a good idea as well.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I always thought that the main purpose of the bypass valve was to let unfiltered oil through the filter when the media became clogged.

Darn it, I edited your post by mistake when I meant to quote it, I apologize.

However here is a good dissertation on bypass valves
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...does_a_bypass_

[Scubaseas]

Volvo used that filter for over 50 years. You would be OK with either of the Mann filters. The lower pressure bypass valves were on the late '50s to early 70's filters if memory serves. It changed over when Volvo started using multi vis oils.



If you want a good quality white filter use a WIX or a NAPA Gold.

[Scubaseas]

Mann W917 filters will work fine also and can be had in white from Mann. These are gas engine filters at 15 micron as opposed to 21 micron for the diesel filter.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The Perkins 404 range (base for some of the D2 engines) uses Perkins oil filter 140517050. A cross from that will get you the VP 3840525 and both 712/83 and 712/98. Best I can tell, the Perkins filter has a 0.8bar bypass valve. Can't say that's definitive, always a chance that Volvo specified something other than the original Perkins. We do run a Perkins filter most of the time (D2-40), they run about $7.

Practical Sailor tested 18 different oil filters in 6/2019 and only two were not recommended: FRAM and SIERRA. They recommended staying with the OEM filter for your engine.

I also despise the high price of OEM filters particularly Volvo Penta as my D2-55B uses the VP 3840525 filter. In the past I have looked for a cross reference to others but still unable to find them although someone recommended FLEETGUARD LF17476 which I have yet to check out.

Sounds like an opportunity for some young entrepreneur to cross reference all these OEM part details and publish the alternatives on a web site.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH