Rebuild or Repower

[RickMatos]

1986 Perkins 4.108 ~ 3,400 hours - Fuel Issue or Time to Re-power?

I’m sure many here have had similar experiences, so I’m hoping to get some insight.

Background:
Last September (13 months ago), I was pulling into an anchorage when my engine sputtered and died. It felt like I had run out of fuel, although my gauge read just under 1/2 tank. I added 5 gallons from our reserves (we carry 15 gallons on board), but the engine still wouldn’t fire. The batteries were good, the engine would turn over, but no ignition. I eventually made it back to the marina with the help of BoatUS.

What I’ve Done So Far:
A diesel mechanic (who works full-time elsewhere and could only manage weekends) agreed to take on the job. What was supposed to be a straightforward fix ended up stretching to almost a year. Over that time, he:

1. Rebuilt the injector pump
2. Rebuilt the injectors
3. Replaced the exhaust manifold and heat exchanger
4. Replaced the fuel lines (supply and return) from the filter head to the injector pump

What Happened Next:
In the meantime, the boat sat relatively idle except for me washing the deck and securing lines during storms. I live about 3 hours away, so it’s tough to be there regularly. By July, the A/C strainer and lines were clogged, and the batteries were shot.

When the mechanic finally calls, he says there’s no fuel getting to the engine. I told him there should be plenty. A few days later, I head out and find algae clogging the tank where the fuel line connects. I treat the fuel, filter out the bad stuff, and refill with fresh fuel. Now, fuel is flowing, but the engine still won’t fire, and my batteries are toast.

Now What?
I’m about $7k into this project, and both this mechanic and another one I brought in as a second opinion are suggesting I should consider re-powering with a Yanmar. I’m not sure whether I’m dealing with a deeper fuel system issue, or if the Perkins has just reached the end of its life.

Has anyone else been through something similar? Is re-powering with a Yanmar my best option, or is there something I’m overlooking? I feel like if the dirty fuel was probably the original issue, but its too late now.

[Island Time O25]

If it were me I'd change the mechanic before making any other decisions. And ask for my $ back. No way it should've taken a competent diesel mechanic more than a few weekends to either fix the issue or declare it unfixable. Sounds like he found an easy cash cow to milk for a year.

[Chotu]

this is an unbelievably unfortunate story.

The Perkins 4.108 is likely fine. someone competent needs to do a compression test, go through the entire fuel system once again, and make sure there are no leaks, and it was installed correctly, make sure the injector pump is the right one, maybe add a lift pump into the supply lines to the injector pump, absolutely clean out that fuel again and maybe even use a different day tank for testing purposes, and just get that thing running again.

A non-starting diesel that still has compression where the flywheel still turns without some weird noise is fine. It can only be a fuel or air delivery issue or valve timing. There is nothing else.

[RickMatos]

Originally Posted by Chotu

this is an unbelievably unfortunate story.

The Perkins 4.108 is likely fine. someone competent needs to do a compression test, go through the entire fuel system once again, and make sure there are no leaks, and it was installed correctly, make sure the injector pump is the right one, maybe add a lift pump into the supply lines to the injector pump, absolutely clean out that fuel again and maybe even use a different day tank for testing purposes, and just get that thing running again.

A non-starting diesel that still has compression where the flywheel still turns without some weird noise is fine. It can only be a fuel or air delivery issue or valve timing. There is nothing else.

I agree. I’ve also read many comments, here and in other places, that give mixed reviews of the Perkins.

Thanks

[Russian007]

I second the day tank idea. Perhaps hire a fuel polisher guy. Change all the filters. Totally 110% rule out the fuel system.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by RickMatos

I agree. I’ve also read many comments, here and in other places, that give mixed reviews of the Perkins.

Thanks

well, everything has mixed reviews. If you take a look at Amazon or this website, nothing is 100%. The Perkins 4.108 is a robust engine. I have owned one of them.

sometimes it’s difficult to find parts like the starter plate/starter. But as an engine, it’s fine. They are noisy and clattery sounding, but they are running. It’s very hard to kill one.

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Chotu

well, everything has mixed reviews. If you take a look at Amazon or this website, nothing is 100%. The Perkins 4.108 is a robust engine. I have owned one of them.

sometimes it’s difficult to find parts like the starter plate/starter. But as an engine, it’s fine. They are noisy and clattery sounding, but they are running. It’s very hard to kill one.

Yeah seems like they're all over the place. Workhorse. 50hp right,?

[SailingHarmonie]

I agree, a sad story. Unfortunately you are the victim here of an incompetent mechanic. Seriously, this guy is flailing about without any idea of what’s wrong.

The chances of this being a life ending problem for the engine are tiny, given your description of what happened. The chances of it having been a very simple problem with fuel delivery are very high.

Worse, an incompetent mechanic mucking around with the injection pump and injectors is likely to have made things far worse, not better.

[deblen]

Service Manual http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/p1983uk.pdf

[deblen]

Originally Posted by RickMatos

1986 Perkins 4.108 ~ 3,400 hours - Fuel Issue or Time to Re-power?

I’m sure many here have had similar experiences, so I’m hoping to get some insight.

Background:
Last September (13 months ago), I was pulling into an anchorage when my engine sputtered and died. It felt like I had run out of fuel, although my gauge read just under 1/2 tank. I added 5 gallons from our reserves (we carry 15 gallons on board), but the engine still wouldn’t fire. The batteries were good, the engine would turn over, but no ignition. I eventually made it back to the marina with the help of BoatUS.

What I’ve Done So Far:
A diesel mechanic (who works full-time elsewhere and could only manage weekends) agreed to take on the job. What was supposed to be a straightforward fix ended up stretching to almost a year. Over that time, he:

1. Rebuilt the injector pump
2. Rebuilt the injectors
3. Replaced the exhaust manifold and heat exchanger
4. Replaced the fuel lines (supply and return) from the filter head to the injector pump

What Happened Next:
In the meantime, the boat sat relatively idle except for me washing the deck and securing lines during storms. I live about 3 hours away, so it’s tough to be there regularly. By July, the A/C strainer and lines were clogged, and the batteries were shot.

When the mechanic finally calls, he says there’s no fuel getting to the engine. I told him there should be plenty. A few days later, I head out and find algae clogging the tank where the fuel line connects. I treat the fuel, filter out the bad stuff, and refill with fresh fuel. Now, fuel is flowing, but the engine still won’t fire, and my batteries are toast.

Now What?
I’m about $7k into this project, and both this mechanic and another one I brought in as a second opinion are suggesting I should consider re-powering with a Yanmar. I’m not sure whether I’m dealing with a deeper fuel system issue, or if the Perkins has just reached the end of its life.

Has anyone else been through something similar? Is re-powering with a Yanmar my best option, or is there something I’m overlooking? I feel like if the dirty fuel was probably the original issue, but its too late now.

4108 with 3400hrs-just broken in. These are normally good for 10K + hrs.





Yes-it sounds like it ran out of fuel-somewhere in fuel path.
1.Remove fuel return pipe from last injector to fuel tank & blow in it. Can you hear air bubbles in tank?
2.Is fuel tank air vent line clear?


3.Slightly loosen the 4 inj. pump to injector pipe nuts at top of inj. pump.
Crank engine.Is there solid fuel-no air bubbles?
If no:
4.Loosen nut on pipe from top of filter to Inj.Pump at inj pump. Is there solid fuel.
If no:
5.Suspect Lift Pump or blocked/leaky line from Lift Pump ,thru Primary Filter tp fuel tank pickup pipe.
Advise your findings. / Len

[MWGDVC]

These "mechanics" are the equivalent of a plumber suggesting you buy a new house because they don't know how to un-clog a drain.
I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but I would acquire a shop manual, and go through the fuel system from filler cap to return lines, cleaning everything and clearing any blockages. Use a clean day tank to get running again, then clean your main fuel tank. Ensure all of the settings and specifications in the manual are followed. I would be suspicious of the injector pump and it's timing and settings after the mechanic molested it. 4.108 is a fine, simple diesel engine. I have one myself. There is a parts supplier in the UK with very reasonable parts prices compared to what I have seen in the US.

[donradcliffe]

I had a 4108 in my Bene First 456. At 4000 hours, it ran, but I got tired of the oil leaks. Repowered with a Beta 50, and glad I made the change. The Japanese know how to build an engine that doesn't leak oil.

The 4108 is really a 35 hp engine and it was a bit weak for the Bene. I looked at Yanmar, but they wanted a 3" exhaust system, and Beta was happy with the existing 2". The Beta coolant and exhaust systems were on the same side, so it was an easy install.

[Calif.Ted]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Worse, an incompetent mechanic mucking around with the injection pump and injectors is likely to have made things far worse, not better.

I had a Perkins that wouldn't restart after overheating when raw water clogged in the middle of a dark rainy night. I couldn't figure it out so consulted mechanic who sent a "Technician". He wore spotless white overalls and gloves to remove and transport injector pump to "The Lab" for rebuild and calibration. I don't know where you can go from here, a good mechanic could fix this but would be reluctant because it's going to be a pain. Almost have to start over and check or re do it all again.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by RickMatos

1986 Perkins 4.108 ~ 3,400 hours - Fuel Issue or Time to Re-power?

What I’ve Done So Far:
A diesel mechanic (who works full-time elsewhere and could only manage weekends) agreed to take on the job. What was supposed to be a straightforward fix ended up stretching to almost a year. Over that time, he:

1. Rebuilt the injector pump
2. Rebuilt the injectors
3. Replaced the exhaust manifold and heat exchanger
4. Replaced the fuel lines (supply and return) from the filter head to the injector pump

Now What?
I’m about $7k into this project, and both this mechanic and another one I brought in as a second opinion are suggesting I should consider re-powering with a Yanmar. I’m not sure whether I’m dealing with a deeper fuel system issue, or if the Perkins has just reached the end of its life.

Is re-powering with a Yanmar my best option, or is there something I’m overlooking? I feel like if the dirty fuel was probably the original issue, but its too late now.

Repowering is almost never a good option compared to what should be a simple repair.

Are these diesel guys Perkins specialists? Or just guys who know how to spell the word "diesel"?

Looks like there are Perkins specialists in Ft. Myers and Orlando area. Have you queried them about symptoms? It's not uncommon for engine specialists to drive to the problem. At extra expense, of course, but perhaps the odds of faster solution would be worth it.

-Chris

[Russian007]

Their final recommendation after a year and 7 grand-- to "go buy a Yanmar" is infuriating.