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Old 11-09-2019, 11:56   #1
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Perkins starter

So I was leaving boot key harbour in the keys and my engine cut off. No worries, raised sail and made it to my destination. Got there and discovered the engine probably shut off on me because the raycor filters were filthy. Replaced those. Batteries died while bleeding the lines. Got brand new batteries. Bled the lines, and the engine would start, run for about five minutes and then died.found a fuel leak on the raycor selector valve, replaced the O ring, bled the lines again, and this happened:

When I went to crank the engine, no cranking, just a loud whirring sound. My guess is the pinion is not engaging the flywheel anymore. Never had any problems with the starter before. Internet tells me conflicting things. Can anyone help illuminate this issue for me. Is it the solenoid, do I need to replace the whole starter? Did I do something to cause this, such as improper starting, etc? And if I fix this, any advice on my fuel issue would help too. Thanks, happy sailing
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:54   #2
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Re: Perkins starter

At first it will be intermittent or maybe only seldom. Then perhaps all the time. A bad drive can also ruin the teeth on the flywheel. If it does this to often you should install a new drive, much more easy than the ring gear.
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Old 11-09-2019, 14:33   #3
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Re: Perkins starter

I had this too and on a Perkins too (Sabre, big unit).


In our case the reason was missing teeth on the engine side. The only way to start was to turn the engine by hand about 2 turns of the shaft. We did so at the power take-off (opposite end to the starter end aka 'front') where the uptake shaft had a hole in it.

b.
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Old 11-09-2019, 14:40   #4
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Re: Perkins starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecos View Post
At first it will be intermittent or maybe only seldom. Then perhaps all the time. A bad drive can also ruin the teeth on the flywheel. If it does this to often you should install a new drive, much more easy than the ring gear.
It was not intermittent.it worked just fine, then the next time I tried it after it just shirred, no engagement
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Old 11-09-2019, 14:45   #5
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Re: Perkins starter

Whats your battery voltage?
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Old 11-09-2019, 15:27   #6
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Re: Perkins starter

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Originally Posted by Wilbyfred View Post
It was not intermittent.it worked just fine, then the next time I tried it after it just shirred, no engagement
Well that's intermittent and it might not do that again for a while.
The drive is supposed to sling the drive gear into the flywheel. Sometimes the threads are dirty and the gear doesn't reach the ring gear but the motor is still running. That will just make a motor sound.
If the drive gear can get all the way out to the ring gear, it will let out a horrible racket as the 2 gears clash. It's after that has gone on for a while, you damage flywheel teeth and might need to remove the transmission and change the ring gear.
The problem you have is often caused by oil etc getting in the drive and clogging up the works. Even spray oils are not the thing, only silicone or a dry lube. However in an old Perkins, you are getting oil into the starter from the leaking rear main seal and it's really skanky oil.
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Old 11-09-2019, 15:36   #7
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Re: Perkins starter

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Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Whats your battery voltage?
12.6. They are brand new. I also checked the cables and wires and no corrosion. I got them with a wire brush just in case. Same thing. And the whirring is so loud and powerful, I'm convinced that this isn't a voltage issue. Though I have been known to be wrong...
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Old 11-09-2019, 15:55   #8
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Re: Perkins starter

There is a chance that 13. something volts would sling out the drive fast enough to engage, but you still have a stuck drive. If you tried it a thousand times, it still might catch...
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Old 11-09-2019, 17:43   #9
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Re: Perkins starter

Take the starter out. When the solenoid engages it pushes the starter gear into the engine ring gear. It might be sticking. It can stick in the solenoid piston, linkage or the gear on the shaft. Make sure the starter gear moves back & forth easily. It could have oil and dirt buildup from a leaking rear main seal. But if the starter is turning then the solenoid is working. Unless you're getting low voltage and there's not enough wattage to pull the solenoid piston. Check the voltage while engaging the starter. If you have jumper cables, activate the starter out of the engine. A new Perkins starter on eBay is about $100.










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Old 11-09-2019, 20:22   #10
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Re: Perkins starter

What engine do you have? On my 4.236 the starter would spin, but not fast enough to to push the pinion gear out to engage the flywheel. It was not a low voltage issue. It was due to the design of the starter not having a cage and bearing on the far side. The pinion shaft is cantilevered, and over time wears out the bushing to the point where the friction is too much and it doesn't spin fast enough. The parts are available in Europe and aren't expensive. I wanted to get the boat back on the water quicker so I got a replacement starter from TADiesel. It was pricey ($400) but I knew it would fit. It's a delco starter. The original starter was long and completely cylindrical as the solenoid was in line. An added benefit of the new starter, which is the style in the animation in the post above, is that's it's shorter and more room between the it and the water pump">raw water pump.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:56   #11
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Re: Perkins starter

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Originally Posted by Wilbyfred View Post
12.6. They are brand new. I also checked the cables and wires and no corrosion. I got them with a wire brush just in case. Same thing. And the whirring is so loud and powerful, I'm convinced that this isn't a voltage issue. Though I have been known to be wrong...
Having recabled my boat this spring and helping a friend do his this summer, I'm never willing to let unknown cable pass the "it looks fine" test. Most of my cable was totally fine but there was corrosion in places and it was replaced with all new cable.

My buddy's boat was far worse. I had lugs that looked fine that snapped off when I bent them.

Just based on what you are saying it seems coincidental that the starter stopped working correctly around this time.

In order to isolate my buddy's "it won't start" issue, I took a good starter battery and brought it right next to the engine. Made up some really short cables from old cables (I have the big crimper but you could use jumpers for this) and essentially wired up a battery to the starter via solenoid exactly as it normally would. When I jumped the terminals it immediately started.

My buddy was complaining that the starter would barely spin even with brand new batteries.

Once we knew the issue was not the starter I was sure it was a cable or ground issue. Took a few minutes of digging in the bilge to find the 2 cables screwed together with a wingnut, covered in duct tape and laying in bilge water to find the problem.

You can perform the same test using a jump pack etc just to be sure that the issue is either wiring or starter related. Would help narrow the focus. If a new starter is indeed $100 on eBay, I'd be inclined to toss a boat buck at it anyways just to have a spare.

I wish I had done that with my Westerbeke rather than pay $400 for said eBay starter when I was in a bind the night before a race and mine died. Ended up just being a solenoid so I rebuilt the original as a spare.
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