Perkins 4108 Smoking and Leaving a Sheen on the Water

[avazquez]

What happens is that there is a perkins special tool used to adjust the internal timing of the pump. If the pump is rebuilt at a local shop that does not have this tool they will most probably do the adjustment with compressed air through an alternate procedure. This procedure is not as precise therefore the timing might be bit off from the original setting from which the original flange markings were made. You then may have to either advance or retard the injection by rotating the pump. It is trial and error.

[avazquez]

Originally Posted by GordMay

White smoke, with exhaust sheen, occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned.
Some causes of this include incorrect injection timing or faulty/damaged injectors.
You need to talk to your re-builder.

Like advanced or retarded injection pump timing. Try rotating the pump...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

Yes; so why, is the mechanic stating " it may be a valve or valve seat" and is going to do a compression test. A broken spring maybe, but it's an audible fault. Mechanically, rings, broken piston, head gasket, can also cause this issue, but so soon after a rebuild? Not my first choice. It sounds like this mechanic is working backwards.




That's not exactly what the OP stated but regardless the symptoms would still suggest that there's an issue with the injector pump, timing or otherwise. Read the 108 service manual Chapter 2 Section D, "Fault Finding".

Welllll that is what I thought he said the order was.

Now you have it too complicated for me.

Thanks.

[sww914]

White smoke = retarded timing.
Black smoke = advanced timing.
Don't ask me how I can remember this, the story has a slight racist tinge to it.
The factory timing marks are for brand new pumps on brand new engines with brand new gears. You have a rebuilt pump, a rebuilt engine, and presumably used timing gears. Wear can change timing a bit here & there, it's not inconceivable that it may just need a simple timing adjustment. Mine does.

[avazquez]

Originally Posted by sww914

White smoke = retarded timing.
Black smoke = advanced timing.
Don't ask me how I can remember this, the story has a slight racist tinge to it.
The factory timing marks are for brand new pumps on brand new engines with brand new gears. You have a rebuilt pump, a rebuilt engine, and presumably used timing gears. Wear can change timing a bit here & there, it's not inconceivable that it may just need a simple timing adjustment. Mine does.

Thank you!

[oldcal46skipper]

Originally Posted by Wainui

Perkins 4108 rebuilt aprox 100 hours ago.
Was running fine but just had the injector pump rebuilt and new injectors.
Now the engine smokes white and leaves a major sheen on the water.
Runs and starts fine.
Any suggestions as to the cause?
Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark,
Your symptoms suggest incomplete combustion. Does this continue after the engine is up to normal operating temp?
Did you have the same issues before the rebuild? If so, you may be "over propped".
Other posters have covered almost all of the problems. I am just completing a major on a 4-108, for which that I have several interested parties. It is an excellent engine. I would rather have a 30 year old Perkins than some of this cheap stuff from asia.

Warm it up slowly, then check smoke and sheen. If you still have it, check pump timing and injectors. They should be set to open at 150ATM's

Tom

[Wainui]

Thanks for all the suggestions. We rotated the injector pump gear untill it stopped smoking. There is a little sheen on the water when it first starts up but nothing like before. It is running fine except that it stalled 5 feet from the end of my dock in 20knts of wind when returning from a fun heavy weather sail. I was just about to reach down for reverse when there was silence. After crunching the end of the dock it started up first time and is running great.
Thanks to all
Mark

[kaudy]

If the mechanic wants to do a compression test on a diesel you just may have the wrong guy. Need special tools to do that. Only one reason for white smoke on a diesel engine, unburned raw fuel. Lack of air makes black smoke.
Injectors are leaking by or timing is off(unlikly since it starts good) I would benchtest the injectors first then check timing.

[2007.pierre]

I had a Perkins 4108 M on my Fjord 33MS. I recently sold this boat as I was not very happy with the cruisibng environment (Mediterranea), after spending years in the rest of the world , The Bahamas and the US intracoastal, at that time with a Seafinn 41 fitted with a Perkins 4.236.
From the many freinds I made, i did not encounter anyone happy with a rebuit Diesel engine. On my last Fjord, the engine was rebuit, a real disaster, hard to start, subject to flooding and leaking oil. If I would have kept the boat, I was ready to change the engine for a new one.
Not knowing your financial status, if you have to keep this engine, at first, have the injectors checked for proper spray, if they are ok, reassemble with the same copper joints but prior to this, on your stove, heat the copper joint to red then plunge it in a glass of cold water. This will restaure the entire properties of the joint for little expense. Idem for all the other small copper joints in the feeding ramp. Keep always in mind that an old engine is like an old man, it never be as reliable as a new one!
On my Seafinn, since the engine was new, I made about fivety thousands miles without any problem, but the 4.236 is probably the best Perkins made, more especially the US version. Dont go to forums about the 4.108, it will ruin your spirit! With injectors checked, before reassembly you could verify the compression to ensure valves close properly, if ok then have the pump rechecked. Timing should no be an issue if the engine start (Mine never started azt the first attempt), always using the heating plug. At this occasion, may be the heating plug is leaking which could explain easily your problem. To verify, disconnect the fuel line to the plug (return), have it dumpt in a bottle while you run the engine. You should have the answer almost immediately. B. Regards. Pierre

[robgoh]

Originally Posted by Wainui

Thanks for all the suggestions. We rotated the injector pump gear untill it stopped smoking. There is a little sheen on the water when it first starts up but nothing like before. It is running fine except that it stalled 5 feet from the end of my dock in 20knts of wind when returning from a fun heavy weather sail. I was just about to reach down for reverse when there was silence. After crunching the end of the dock it started up first time and is running great.
Thanks to all
Mark

Hi Wainui, i have having the same problem as yours. White smoke, sheen on water and smell of unburnt diesel. My engine is 4.236. May I ask how many degrees did you rotate your pump (anticlockwise looking from the pump flange to retard?). Would the engine be damaged by playing around with rotating the pump? Thanks, Rob

[a64pilot]

Don't try to set your injection timing by ear, yes you can damage the engine.

[robgoh]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Don't try to set your injection timing by ear, yes you can damage the engine.

Would you be able to advise on how to set injector timing? Thanks

[a64pilot]

In truth I'd have to get the right manual and read it, sometimes it's dead easy, my John Deere it was install a lock pin in the flywheel, loosen the pump turn it so two marks align.
I am not familiar with your engine sorry.

[Sail0900]

Here is what happened to me. Started getting black smoke & noticed a sheen on the water. These two items to me where not related, I've been around the block with diesels before. Just found it curious and looking for a corolation. Ok, simple things first. Check temp, check oil pressure, no extra engine noise or vibration. At the dock the sheen followed us in. After shut down & checked the oil , was really low. How is raw oil getting into my exhaust??? Pulled the book out & scrached my dark parts and said to self look at the oil cooler. Sure enough, the oil cooler had a leak on the raw water side and my oil was entering the exhaust manifold then dumping out the back. I said Darn!! $600. Later problem solved. There is more to this story but you will have to wait for the paperback.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Sail0900

Here is what happened to me. Started getting black smoke & noticed a sheen on the water. These two items to me where not related, I've been around the block with diesels before. Just found it curious and looking for a corolation. Ok, simple things first. Check temp, check oil pressure, no extra engine noise or vibration. At the dock the sheen followed us in. After shut down & checked the oil , was really low. How is raw oil getting into my exhaust??? Pulled the book out & scrached my dark parts and said to self look at the oil cooler. Sure enough, the oil cooler had a leak on the raw water side and my oil was entering the exhaust manifold then dumping out the back. I said Darn!! $600. Later problem solved. There is more to this story but you will have to wait for the paperback.

On a 4108 the oil cooler is on the coolant (fresh water) side of the cooling system. Very unlikely to have oils make it through to raw water side.