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Old 14-01-2020, 19:07   #16
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

wottie, as usual you are more perceptive than I. The pix were kinda uninformative to me and I really based my thoughts on the OP's not mentioning anything about a heat exchanger and my limited experience with Listers being either air cooled or raw water cooled. If his has an HEX then there are a host of other possible causes for the overheating.

I wonder where the OP has gone... some more info would be good!

Jim
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Old 14-01-2020, 20:32   #17
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

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Originally Posted by Juggles View Post
Hey there. This is my first yatch. Roberts 32 and I've got very little engine experience. Any engine. At all.
We were out, got stuck on a sand bank, dislodged eventually and motored home. Engine started overheating according to the gauge within two minutes. Unfortunately I don't know if it was doing this before the sand bank because I at that point found out my lovely partner had been motoring with instruments off! Should have checked on him down below. Great.

Anyway got her home had a look and my impeller wasnt broken but was squashed. Ordered a new one just in case and put the impeller back in right. Turned engine on. Overheated again. Checked the impeller and it's done it again. Repeated this two more times with the impeller looking like this each time.


So looking at that I assume I have a swollen housing and either need to sand it down or buy a new pump?


Next problem. The damn thing is impossible to get off the hoses because you can't unscrew then from the pump end due to space. Not sure how they were put on to begin with. Already unmounted the pump just need to take the hoses off.... preferably without cutting. Any help is welcome. Same hose on both sides. Black corrugated with a screw attachment that seems to say hanen on it. I have spare corrugated hose but not those attachments. Not even sure where to get them.


And finally. I've only just.noticed. there's a piece of hose that leads to nowhere on this thing! Is that right? The old owner of the boat is a....well I don't want to swear that much but suffice it to say he's a lying lemon selling crook who managed to piss of a whole sailing club. He'll get his. Anyway. Because of him I can't trust anything I see on this boat. The wirings shot. It's like he didn't know what stainless was. Or marine grade ply. Or engine maintenance. Or antifouling. Or anything really. I could go on but the cooling system is today's problem. If you look close. It's the clear hose that leads of the red hose that just...ends in mid air?


Here's a picture of the engine for completeness. It's a Lister hw3m. Not even a common easy engine to deal with.
[url=https://ibb.co/MS5d6ht][/url
Impeller vanes as mentioned should be oriented in the same direction.
Be sure to check you have a free flow of water from the strainer to the pump, you should see it flow out when the hose going to it is opened.
Alot of strainers must be primed if emptied.

You'd benefit from a basic Diesel engine class.
Some of these processes can be a bit confusing.
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Old 14-01-2020, 21:58   #18
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
.

I wonder where the OP has gone... some more info would be good!

Jim

They are probably drifting around offshore with a seized engine, trying to make it back to land with a paddle.
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Old 15-01-2020, 06:30   #19
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Looks like you have a Lister Petter ST4W, many are raw water cooled with wet exhaust and sometimes the cooling passages in the engine get silted up. You'll need to do a thorough flush with pressurized water then check all your hoses and connections, the preceding advice on your seawater pump is good. I'm sorry I can't be more precise as I can't see much in the pictures. Those are great engines in the air-cooled version, I have a Lister Petter LPWS2 Alpha in one of my current boats.
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Old 15-01-2020, 10:25   #20
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Check water flow out of exhaust. If not much flow, then check strainer, barnacles/sand in thru-hull.
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Old 15-01-2020, 11:27   #21
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

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Originally Posted by sailingchiro View Post
Check water flow out of exhaust. If not much flow, then check strainer, barnacles/sand in thru-hull.
On that particular, if raw water cooled water may flow out the exhaust yet not provide adequate cooling due to sediment and scale in the passages. Checking the oil for water is a good idea as it may have rusted through, they haven't produced that engine in thirty or more years.
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Old 15-01-2020, 14:25   #22
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Appears to be a raw water cooled engine, so no coolant level to check...

Jim
I have a Universal M-18 that is raw water cooled and uses coolant. Trust me, I learned the hard way.
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Old 15-01-2020, 14:33   #23
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

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Originally Posted by Over Budget View Post
I have a Universal M-18 that is raw water cooled and uses coolant. Trust me, I learned the hard way.


You have a fresh water cooled engine with a heat exchanger.
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Old 15-01-2020, 17:34   #24
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

As some suggested, measure the actual flow of water through the engine. Impeller pumps have to have a good seal on the sides of the impeller, where the sides of the blades turn against the inside surface of the pump body and the inside of the cover plate. The thickness of the cover gasket is also important; too thick and the water leaks around the ends of the impeller blades.
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Old 15-01-2020, 19:06   #25
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Hey guys. My god not sure what makes me want to cry more. The engine or trying to reply on here via mobile. I've been trying to reply for a couple days but on mobile the page just dies. Sorry for radio silence.

We have raw water and coolant. Water and oil level are fine. Strainer is empty. Someone at the club said we may have the wrong oil. We have penrite marine 4 stroke. He just said it's not right. Not sure. Guy was drunk. Either way my partners gone to buy some 15 40 oil even though the penrite says it can be used in place of 15 40.
Seacock was open but I do wonder if he opened it fully as it's hidden behind a bunch of junk. There is water coming from the exhaust. I'll take a small video tomorrow.
I'll be back on the boat tomorrow. I'll trace all the hoses and get some photos then. I also agree about the corrugated hose. I thought that was bilge hose not cooling hose. What would you change it to?
As for the intake. Is there a way to clean that while on the boat?
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Old 15-01-2020, 21:54   #26
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

The oil was fine, no way does the wrong oil cause an engine to overheat in that timeframe. Penrite are correct and youíve just learned an important lesson about drunken morons who hang around boats.

But, an oil change AFTER youíve sorted this out will be a good thing anyway.

Strainer is empty? Of water or weeds? If it is empty of water, thereís a clue right there.

Water flow out the exhaust will be the next easiest step I can think of. But if you are thinking of posting a video, be prepared for more frustration. It defeats a number of us here. Some people seem to do it fine though.

If in doubt, put the video on YouTube and post a link to it here.
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Old 15-01-2020, 21:55   #27
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Oh, and donít change anything YET. Wait until you have a reasonable idea of what is going on. Otherwise you will just introduce too many variables to the problem.
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Old 15-01-2020, 22:33   #28
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Infrared thermometers are available at Home Depot
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Old 15-01-2020, 23:58   #29
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggles View Post
Hey guys. My god not sure what makes me want to cry more. The engine or trying to reply on here via mobile. I've been trying to reply for a couple days but on mobile the page just dies. Sorry for radio silence.

We have raw water and coolant. Water and oil level are fine. Strainer is empty. Someone at the club said we may have the wrong oil. We have penrite marine 4 stroke. He just said it's not right. Not sure. Guy was drunk. Either way my partners gone to buy some 15 40 oil even though the penrite says it can be used in place of 15 40.
Seacock was open but I do wonder if he opened it fully as it's hidden behind a bunch of junk. There is water coming from the exhaust. I'll take a small video tomorrow.
I'll be back on the boat tomorrow. I'll trace all the hoses and get some photos then. I also agree about the corrugated hose. I thought that was bilge hose not cooling hose. What would you change it to?
As for the intake. Is there a way to clean that while on the boat?
Good to here back from you.

As long as the level is correct, the oil should make no difference at all.

That water is pumped out the exhaust is good; the important thing is how much, relevant to engine speed. 2-4 gallons per minute for a small diesel engine at cruise would be an educated guess as a starting point.

Some quantification of 'overheat' would be good, especially given the no-reference starting point of 'instruments off'. What does the gauge read when 'overheated' now? It is common for electrically-operated gauges to give inaccurate information; the heat gun idea is good, but you can also tell a lot just by touch. A good hot engine can be touched for a second without burning you, but if you're afraid to touch it, something is likely wrong. If smoke is coming from painted surfaces (not out the exhaust), something is definitely wrong.

Some more---comprehensive?---pictures will help. If you can move back from the objective so that we can see a more complete picture, we may be able to spot problems that are not evident to a newcomer.

It's hard to check the intake completely from inside the boat. That you're getting water from the exhaust now is encouraging. A simple test, if the design of the strainer allows it, would be to open it as if you were going to clean it, with the seacock open, and note the flow. If the flow is good, then the intake is likely clear. This, of course, says nothing about the flow downstream from the strainer...

By corrugated hose, I assume you mean wire-reinforced hose. It is common enough to see its use on the suction side of raw water systems; the thought seems to be that it will keep the hose from collapsing from the suction of the raw water pump, which it will. But the system should be free-flowing, and the use of wire-reinforced hose is often not necessary on the suction side of small engine installations.

There are only two 'corrugated' hoses, that I can see. The black one to the left in the second picture, which, if it is the supply for the raw water pump, would be a proper application, and the blue, large diameter 'hose' in the third picture, which, though hard to be sure, looks like a vent or air duct, another proper application.


There seems to be a little confusion about engine cooling systems, so perhaps some clarification is in order.

There are several different ways to water cool an engine, but the two most common for small boat engines are generally known as 'freshwater cooling' (or 'closed-loop') and 'raw water cooling'.

Both systems have a raw water pump; the difference is that in the freshwater system, the raw water is pumped through a heat exchanger, which contains freshwater (or 'coolant', usually a mixture of water and antifreeze/anti-boil/conditioner), which is itself pumped through the engine (by a separate freshwater 'circulation' pump) in a closed loop that transfers the heat generated by the engine to the raw water pumped through the heat exchanger, which isolates the majority of (expensive) engine components from the deleterious effects of sea water.

In a raw water cooled system, seawater ('raw' water) itself is used to cool all internal parts of the engine, sometimes in conjunction with a circulation pump, sometimes without. This brings with it special conditions that can and have been met by certain adaptations which can provide servicable life for most components, but generally speaking, life expectancy is shorter than with the freshwater-cooled engines.
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Old 16-01-2020, 01:32   #30
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Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Went back out had enough time before sun went down.
Yeah I didn't really believe the guy too much but he was handing out free beers so thought it was safe to stick around and listen to his "advice". He was also trying to tell us that even if the thermostat was beeping that we couldn't do damage to our engine because it's a Lister? Yeah...I know enough to know that doesn't sound right.

So it turns out almost no water is coming out the exhaust. My partner said there was the last time he turned it on. Can't really verify the amount to be honest but he swears up and down there was some. The video shows 25 odd seconds of tiny droplets spluttering out and then some smoke coming out and me screaming to shut her off. Engine was on for 45 seconds max by the time I got up there and started filming.
YouTube link... https://youtu.be/rLbgQzhoQ-4

Here are the photos in order.
Seacock for water intake.


Here's the whole junction leading to the engine area.


There seems to be a second seacock I wasn't made aware of. Partner wasn't sure if it was on or off. Handle fell off when trying to move itm retightened it.


Found another random hose. Not sure if it was ever connected to anything.


This is where the seacocks lead to the sea strainer. It was wet, not full of water and empty of debris.



hose from sea strainer leads to water pump and then coolant tank.





Other hose from coolant tank



Red hose leads from coolant tank to exhaust and nowhere.




[url=https://ibb.co/9gjwzBf]

Here's where the exhaust leads. Recently replaced the top half of the metal pipe as the owner said there was a small hole(it had rusted through completely. Jerk). Second half has a tiny tear. Needs replacing but currently held with self welding tape and then fusing silicone tape overtop. Not leaking. I've been assured it's fine for now while we diagnose?


Here is where it comes out the other end.


Up through the floor to a unmovable handle. Seriously that circular wheel on top will not move. Pipe feels like it'd break before it'll turn.



And the rest of the hose leading out of the boat. No idea what type. The old owner loved to paint things white. Learnt anything painted white is usually bad. Fake cardboard roofing...Rusted screws....garden hose for drinking pipes...I could go on. Anyway.





[]
[]
[]
Here is the random hose I mentioned. The red part leads from the engine to the clear part...which..goes nowhere? Has a little stopper/ mini cock on the end.



paypal png image


We have an issue starting the engine with kill switch engaged to look at the impeller. The ignition is 3 odd meters away from the kill switch which is another 2 odd metres from the wheel where you rev to start the engine while someone's holding in the damn ignition switch. Were getting an electrition to fix this soon as the engines going. It's ridiculous. Basically we'd need one man on the ignition one on the wheel one on the kill switch and one down below looking at the pump. Any easier way to achieve this?
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