Overhaul or replace 1981 Universal diesel

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The Universals are usually good engines. You dont know how many hours but it runs well and doesn't burn any oil. It could have quite low hours.
Personally I would use it for a year. Get a good "point and shoot" thermometer and see what's hot if anything really.

Look intensely for leaks that may be causing the smell. Often peripheral stuff causes leaks and smells.

If the boat sat a lot, consider if the shaft may be corroded/pitted. This can cause a hot smell while motoring if it's eating up placking gland material. many shaft corrod inside the packing gland when sitting as they are SS and the low oxygen salt water sits in there and eats the SS. I've seen some that look like worms were eating the SS with little tunnels of missing material.

For ease of mind consider:
- Have the injectors rebuilt and tested.
-You could have the compression tested. The mechanic needs a fitting for the gauge, you cant hand hold a gauge testing diesels. or...
-Remove the head and consider if it should be rebuilt while it's off. This is often only an hour's job to get it off. Depends on the engine.
-With the head off you can see/measure any ridge in the cylinders and get a better idea.

Thanks, Cheechako. I'll be checking the prop shaft this off season. Using the engine for next season is sounding better all the time. It is going to take me a while to prepare the rest of the boat for longer distances, so that will give me time for more assessment of this engine and what exactly I'll have done to it before venturing farther.

[grantmc]

To restore or replace an engine is a confronting debate that many of us face. And which ever way one goes presents significant challenges and costs. Even simply swapping in like with like isn't usually easy as engine manufacturers change footprints and connection locations. And everyone's situation is different.

My own experience was in respect to an old Yanmar. She started well, and ticked over fine, but she was down on power an hp or 3 and with a full fire box of coal burning she'd smoke a little more than I’d like (but never overheated).

As owner I tried to be fastidious with maintenance, regular oil changes, good clean fuel, giving her decent long runs rather than just a 5 minute jaunt in and out of the marina etc so it would mostly get to operating temperature. And conservative use of the throttle.

But however well I shepherded the motor, I couldn't make up for the previous 40+ years of earlier owners. Whoever writes on their log "Forgot to turn the engine sea cock open and overheated engine." Or “I’ve only used the motor for 40 hours in the last 2 years so seems stupid to change the oil.” And of course some of these little work horses don’t even have rev counters and/or time keepers because the first buyer never took up the optional extra console panel. Or even that the major engine rebuild before you bought the sail boat was straight out of a can.

And in my head I understood that whatever way I turned the value of my boat wouldn’t increase a shackle. A boat either has, or does not have a working engine, so far as any prospective buyer is concerned. A newer, or indeed rebuilt motor mostly only makes the boat a little more attractive, but does little to alter the cash reality for either party.

But one day the engine just wouldn’t start. Subsequently turned out to be a fried head gasket, a not uncommon condition for raw water cooled engines. But when I bought the boat I had an engineer’s check, and he warned me of the need to rebuild within 2 or 3 years. And so that’s what I did, new innards, and much expense. She ran better, but not for long, and for the next 3-4 years I had several bad failure experiences. Whilst the engine had been rebuilt, it was still a 40 year old engine. The engine itself wasn’t too bad but the stuff around it was causing grief, the alternator, and the exhaust manifold and pipe, plus the engine mounts. In themselves not especially difficult, but man, replacement parts for old engines incur serious coin, and that’s if you can get them.

After 5 years of frustration and much more expense another engine presented itself. It was second hand with genuine low hours, and was in perfect working order. It was the engine from a genset off a large yacht. The Mase generator itself had failed and wasn’t economic to replace, but the engine was great. I bought it and actually spent more on the install than the motor cost. But also replaced all the old junk too; morse controls, engine bed rebuild, gearbox, water intake system, exhaust system, and fuel supply and tank.

And an addendum to those years of financial pain and propulsion frustration. They would have been so much worse had I have been experiencing them in more remote parts of the world (as I do today) and realise the difficulty of both acquiring spares and getting capable help as good engineers are difficult to find. They certainly exist but there's much chaff to be winnowed to find them

And honestly I’ve never looked back. That little engine has been problem free for the last 7 years. So I know when I take my little grand kids out I can trust the motor to return us all safely home again. So glad I bit the bullet.

And you might know there’s that awful. law of dynamic negatives by Finangle (also known as Melody's law, Sod's Law and Finagle's corollary to Murphy's law) typically rendered as ‘Anything that can go wrong, will—but at the worst possible moment.’ And it seems to be so damn true with boats and stuff marine.

A couple of other points:

• common rail, not for me, seems in reality they need specialist skills and gear to service the high pressure fuel side, and
• another thread that I think provides additional useful thoughts on MD40s.

[FPNC]

Check the little things first.

Can you make a bit over 2800 RPM in neutral?

Can you make at least full 2800 RPM under way while loaded? If not, you may be over propped. Correct the propeller and your smoking my go away.

If you seldom run wide open throttle, you may find that when you do open it up, that the exhaust elbow heats up more than normal and you are burning away a bit of oil or dust that has collected on the elbow or the fiberglass lagging. Not really a big deal as this happens with brand new engines all the time.

I would have a compression test done and injectors checked before I pulled the engine. You may find low compression on one or more cylinders or perhaps an injector is not misting as finely as it should. Replacing injectors is much cheaper than a new engine.

Lastly, change the oil to make sure low viscosity or synthetic oil is not the problem.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

38 year old ( the engine not me ) Volvo MD17D owner here.
Last 18 years have been spent primarily in remote locations where a lot of motoring has been involved .
My first question for you would be regarding availabilty of parts for your engine. If available buy what you think appropriate before heading off into the wild blue. In my case it is gaskets - head and others required to do a full ohaul, lift pump, FW pump, SW pump, thermostats and stuff.
In my experience the skills required to overhaul an engine are easy to find, the parts not so much.
An hour ago local mechanics here in Ecuador just finished replacing the head gaskets - three in number - on my engine ( don't ask - long sad story of cascading calamities ). If I had not had spare gaskets it would have been a long wait for some to arrive. As it was the injector sleeves would have had to have been ordered in from Europe as we couldn't find any in the US. Luckily we didn't need them.
Previous time we had the tops off was on Isla Navarino, TdF, Southern Chile in 2007 where another skipper had the skills and I had the parts.

A thought on heat exchangers. I don't think I have every come across an MD17D ( a rare beast these days ) with a Volvo heat exchanger on it. Mine is an after market Bowman oil cooler similar to this https://www.asap-supplies.com/produc...d-water-203490 which is bulkhead mounted next to the engine. Worth considering if yours is suspect.

I think I will keep her running until she starts burning more oil than diesel.

Thanks, El Pinguino. You raise an interesting point about carrying even spares that I might not be able to replace myself.

My heat exchanger seems OK. No loss of coolant. Temp gauge in the normal range, even after pushing the engine hard.

[JoeRobertJr]

Grant Mc, Thanks for that. What you described is what I worry about with keeping the engine, but it seems I am not yet at the point where I should be giving up on it.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by FPNC

Check the little things first.

Can you make a bit over 2800 RPM in neutral?

Can you make at least full 2800 RPM under way while loaded? If not, you may be over propped. Correct the propeller and your smoking my go away.

If you seldom run wide open throttle, you may find that when you do open it up, that the exhaust elbow heats up more than normal and you are burning away a bit of oil or dust that has collected on the elbow or the fiberglass lagging. Not really a big deal as this happens with brand new engines all the time.

I would have a compression test done and injectors checked before I pulled the engine. You may find low compression on one or more cylinders or perhaps an injector is not misting as finely as it should. Replacing injectors is much cheaper than a new engine.

Lastly, change the oil to make sure low viscosity or synthetic oil is not the problem.

Thanks, FPNC. I cannot tell you much about the RPMs. The tach goes up and down with the engine speed, but it is not even close to accurate. I am hoping that is related to the bad alternator, which I will be replacing this Spring. I'll be replacing all the wiring between the engine and control panel this off season also, since most of it is sketchy, and some of it is down right dangerous.
The exhaust elbow is something I had not thought about. I'll check that specifically if I experience the burning smell again.

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

I need to decide whether to recondition my 41-year-old Universal diesel or replace it. I request your opinions, especially on factors to consider.

Without knowing the condition of the engine there is no way to know if it needs rebuilding or not. Get a compression test and oil analysis.

Cost: Full rebuild will be approximately half the cost of new. Up to a 1/4 if you do the work yourself.

Reliability: No significant difference between rebuilt v new except for the ancillary equipment.

Performance/Economy: Expect new to be slightly better allround.

A new engine usually starts a chain of events that can significantly increase costs.:
New Engine> New Exhaust> New Gearbox> New Prop Shaft> New Prop> etc, etc.

It is quite possible you just need some injector work and maybe a head job. Both cheap fixes. Cooling system needs a good inspection to clean and check condition as this can be a major source of reliability issues.

[Searles]

If the engine hrs are unknown, but it runs fine ,a tune up maybe all that’s required I/e ,check and adjust valve clearance ,service injectors ,clean heat exchangers ,inside that is ,plus exhaust elbow and s/w injection points and exhaust hose for internal breakdown ,⛵️⚓️

[Searles]

My bad, didn’t see the post Ballsnall right on .⛵️⚓️

[Ericson38]

If you do part ways with that engine and transmission, make sure you determine the gear reduction ratio of the original transmission (assuming that is getting changed too). Then spec out the high amp serpentine drive belt pulley on the crank pulley.

Also, I would bump up to 40hp if you go this route. Our E38 was 15K pounds, while the FW 39 is 19K pounds.

[JimsCAL]

How clean is/was the prop? A fouled prop could be overloading the engine.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by JimsCAL

How clean is/was the prop? A fouled prop could be overloading the engine.

As could a clogged up mixing T (water still flows, but carboned up exhaust path). I think this was mentioned already. If anything is an air pump, it is a diesel, as there is no throttle plate to obstruct air flow at low outputs.

Its a great boat you selected..

[JoeRobertJr]

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback and various points to consider. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

I have decided to keep the engine for now, and proceed with my original plan to replace all the wiring and the bad alternator during the current off-season. Next season, I will do more operational testing and monitoring to determine what kind of service is called for.

[Patrick of M]

Fwiw if you run an engine hard and it hasn't been run hard in awhile, it will usually smell hot/oily. As far as smoking from the exhaust, that can happen as well if it hasn't been pushed, and sometimes goes away. You should still have your injectors cleaned and checked, cause that is just good PM and can save a piston/cylinder (you can do it yourself with about $200 in parts, pop off tester and dental ultrasonic cleaner). Wish I had your engine. You can also do a compression test. Personally I would tune and use it and if an issue comes up, order the parts and fix it.

[JoeRobertJr]

Thanks, Patrick. That is pretty much where I am right now.
I ran it a couple times this weekend with no issues, though just normal loading.