Outboard Too Large - Buyer’s Remorse

[onestepcsy37]

Originally Posted by FatBear

I gotta ask, and it's not a criticism or opinion but a genuine question: Why would anyone with a really small outboard - like the 3.5 to 5HP ones some have mentioned - need a RIB? It's not going to plane but it will be a lot heavier than a soft bottom. Plus you can stow the soft bottom if you are one of those circumnavigators that someone mentioned. Is it just a style thing or is there some real reason to prefer the RIB?

I got a nearly perfect Avon rib for $100. Run it with my 3.5 Tohatsu 2 stroke. May get rid of the rib though, too heavy to easily stow on deck. Probably go back to my hypalon rollup. Also considering a portabote.

[SVJennie]

A small all aluminum dink requires less HP to get it on a plane even with more weight aboard.

[DeborahLee]

Check around the dealers and see if you can find a 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke 59lbs. I just saw one at a boat show a dealer had a little pricey though.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Also considering a portabote.

A friend has one of these. Folds flat, and can be tied up against the lifeline. He powers with a 5 hp Mercury 2 stroke, and can get on plane with he and his wife. With the flat, fairly rigid bottom, it planes very easy. Is also pretty wet. And stability is, uh, "different". A couple of people have tried it, and brought it back to the dock pretty quick because they couldn't get used to all of the flexing. Including a floor that flexes quite a bit, and the sides when underway - so you get a lot of "wobble". That said, he likes the portability, and the ability to fold up into nothing, and that it moves very well with the 5 hp. He has a large cat and can lift it onto the foredeck using the spin halyard with someone on the winch while he guides it. Just try one before you buy one.

[hellosailor]

A 9.9 and a 15 at least used to be often the same engine with two different heads. Import tariffs made engines over 9.9 very expensive, and this subterfuge allowed buyers to buy a cheaper 9.9 and then change the head, voila a 15hp engine without paying the tariff for it.


But 2-stroke engines aren't what they used to be. The old gross polluters were a problem, and now I think it is Evinrude who boasts their new designs and controls make 2-strokes superior to 4-strokes again. Not sure about small engines, but it is something to be aware of.


If you think a 15hp engine is "too fast" for a little kid in the boat, the answer is, throttle down. Don't go that fast. But as the daughter gets older, one day you will find the winds are 20 knots against you, there's a three or four foot chop that you have to battle, and, oh yeah, another two knots of current but you STILL have to get back to the boat, so planning or not, there's good reason to have more power than you will ever *normally* use.


As well as a lift of some kind on the boat that will clip into a harness on the engine, ensuring your back doesn't suffer.


Giving it a chance just might be the simplest solution, and way the cheapest.

[4arch]

While I appreciate the suggestions to go smaller and lighter on the dinghy itself, we already have the RIB and we like it. We had a slat floor inflatable for a while and found that it tracked horribly and was impossible to row. It was OK for weekending and short cruises but wouldn't be our preference for liveaboard use, especially not for a family of three. As for the porta bote, I like the concept but I took it out of the running when dinghy shopping due to the stated max weight capacity of 585 lbs for the 10 footer being right on the edge for our needs.

I'll admit the RIB is a bit cumbersome to wrestle on and off the foredeck, but we have no regrets on the dinghy choice. From time to time I've considered installing snap davits (the flip-up type originally designed for powerboats) as they've been reported to work well on beamy boats like ours with sugar scoop transoms at a fraction of the cost of lifting davits.

[capn_mark]

Hey Arch!
Well it's great to have such a variety of opinions and it's also great that there is no one right or wrong answer. In my humble opinion you'll never regret having a big dink especially once you're in the Bahamas. I understand weight is a problem - we have a Yamaha 25 horse two-stroke and it weighs only about 99 pounds. So assuming you can change to a two-stroke, definitely don't go less than the 15 hp. With that motor you will be able to go fishing, snorkeling and do some general adventuring that just will not happen if you have <8hp. With your little one you will most likely be spending multiple days at anchor without moving so raising and lowering the outboard won't be such a big deal especially if its a 2 stroke.

Years ago we used a Honda 2HP for half the season and it's been sitting in my garage for about 15 years now. We affectionately refer to it as the egg beater and it was a great little motor but just way way way too slow. For general enjoyment, comfort and safety the biggest dingy with the biggest outboard was some of the best advice I was given.

I should probably mention the 2 and the 25 were on different dingys.... I now have an aluminum bottom RIB and love it.

Good luck with your planning!
Mark.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[secrabtree]

4arch - You've got many recommendations so I guess it's alright that I insert my two cents worth. My wife and I spent 4 years in the Sea of Cortez and along the west coast of Mexico. For a dinghy we had a Walker Bay 10 with the inflatable tubes and a four stroke Mercury 5 HP. It didn't plane with both of us in it (500#+). That was fine with us. IMO the four stroke is worth the extra money and weight even when not required by environmental law. We went up rivers and estuaries, some where I wouldn't want to go fast so as not to do damage if I hit anything, many that I didn'r want to go fast so that I could observe the wildlife more leisurely because of the quieter motor. And most of those times the much better fuel economy allowed us to go further. And the hard bottom of the Walker Bay handled the rocky shores as well as a RIB.

[FatBear]

So what about electric? Those Torqueedo outboards look pretty tempting... Especially since you can charge the battery with a solar cell and you wouldn't have to worry about your dinghy gas going up in flames. (A friend had a diesel Grand Banks, but his gasoline generator leaked, caught fire, and his whole boat burned to the waterline. Fortunately everyone got off OK.)

[sy_gilana]

I don't like the 4 strokes because they are finicky with gasoline quality in the 3rd world, BUT. you have made your choice.

I would get a spare prop, but one inch pitch less, this will give you more bollard pull but less top speed.
Next, fit it with Doel Fins, so that getting on the plane happens at lower speeds, and the climb onto the plane is less "bow-high"
These two steps will make it less if not un-intimidating.

For the hoisting, why not articulate the jib of the crane with a hinge, or, simply rig a block and tackle to draw it in to the mounting board, if you drill a hole through the center of the board at the height of the trim pin in the clamp bracket, then pass the line through the hole, attach to the trim pin, it becomes self-centering when you pull the line.

Keep it...

[FatBear]

Originally Posted by 4arch

I've considered installing snap davits (the flip-up type originally designed for powerboats) as they've been reported to work well on beamy boats like ours with sugar scoop transoms at a fraction of the cost of lifting davits.

I know quite a few power boaters who have these and they seem to work very well. On rivers, anyway. I didn't know you could use them on a sailboat. A couple of the ones in our marina have these weird swively motor mounts on their dinghies which allow the motor to swivel and remain upright as the boat is tipped up onto the swim platform. I have no idea how much weight or horsepower the swively motor mounts can carry, though. Otherwise you'd still have to hoist the engine before you could tip the boat up.

Also, regarding one of sy_gilana's suggestions. Doel-fin is good. There are other brands which I have not tried, but are probably also good: it's really the concept that is good. Highly recommended. I've had them on two outboards and on an outdrive on a old aluminum runabout and they really tame the ride. You pop up quick and level when applying throttle and can plane at much lower speeds than without one. Probably half the people I know have them on their outboards and everyone loves them.

[mstrebe]

If you don't need to plane, you might want to consider a Torqueedo electric motor. We have a very similar 9 foot Zodiac with a slat floor, and the Travel 1003 gets it up to displacement speed no problem with two adults and three teens aboard in protected harbors.

The total weight is 35 lbs. and it comes off in three pieces.

We recharge it onboard directly from the 12v outlet so there's no fuel issues and we don't have to carry gasoline. It charges fully overnight from the house batteries and one charge lasts all day for anchorage to dinghy dock trips.

Was the perfect tender solution for us.

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by MVNoPlans

I agree with foothill. The wife, my 3 year old, a small dog and yours truly happily get back and forth in our semi disposable Zoom 8ft with slat floor powered with a 2hp Honda. I don't have davits and I can easily lift the Honda up and over the transom with one hand. Zero regrets for going minimalist.

I do not intend to be critical but I wonder how people use their dinghies? We bought 2x all aluminium RIB's (kids and family) plus a 15hp & 25hp Yamaha Enduro's and 2x Yamaha 3.5hp Malta's. We also have an 8ft Avon Rover. Yes, the dinghies are large and need wheels to get them up the beach. However, when you need to travel distances across a seaway it would be foolish to use the Avon equipped with a Malta. Plus we would be soaked and exposed for much longer. We have pulled other boats off reefs with our 11ft dinghy using the 25hp. We can plane comfortably and safely rather than wallowing.......... I also agree that when travelling short distances we prefer to use our big RIB with the long shaft Yamaha Malta. Our dinghies are pulled aboard every night using purpose built arrangement that takes a mere couple of minutes to recover or to launch (not 30 minutes plus as has been suggested). It is what serves ones individual needs that is required. Without wishing to belittle others experiences, first check out what circumnavigators use or want. We have rarely seen a small soft bottom dinghy with a sub 8hp in the Indian Ocean - and those few that we have seen wished for bigger and more powerful arrangements. I do accept that soft dinghies and small outboards may serve their purpose in the islands but for trans-pacific wandering (not a one year dash) and long distance remote cruising, that a bigger, powerful dinghy and motor really come into their own. Try buying a decent dinghy and outboard in Chagos, or in the Red Sea.

[4arch]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

I don't like the 4 strokes because they are finicky with gasoline quality in the 3rd world, BUT. you have made your choice.

For better or worse, the choice of a 4 stroke has been made for me. Due to environmental regulations in the US, new conventional 2 stroke outboards have not been available for purchase in several years. Since I need the motor now, choosing a 2 stroke would push me into the used market and I’ve not had good luck with used small motors. The celebrated Yamaha 15 HP 2 strokes are not easy to find on the used market and when they do come up seem to command high prices that I’m not sure I’d be willing to pay for a 5+ year old motor with an unknown background.

2 stroke direct injection looks promising but so far is only available on outboards 40 HP and up. Also when you compare a 40 HP 2 stroke DI and a 40 HP 4 stroke, there is no real weight/size savings. It this technology does ultimately bring about a return to more reasonably sized small outboards, it’s probably at least a few years off. I imagine us sailors who are always taking our motors off and on and thus can become obsessed with their weight and bulk are not the main consumers of these devices so the manufacturers don't have a real incentive to cut their weights down.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by 4arch

... 2 stroke direct injection looks promising but so far is only available on outboards 40 HP and up ...

Suzuki makes a 15HP (& smaller) 2 Stroke DFI outboard.
➥ Suzuki Marine - Product Lines - Outboard Motors - Products - DF15A_EFI - 2012 - DF15A_EFI