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Old 12-06-2017, 12:02   #16
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Just to add to the lore.
I don't know about the clearances on the Perkins but I do know of a 471 gimmy that started running away on bad rings and sump oil. It swallowed an entire blanket and was finally shut down with a piece of 5/8 plywood.
Let us know what you decide and what happens please.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:20   #17
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Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Later on he posted an explanation of his concern with valve clearance.
His point is with so little clearance all it would take is a little bit of paper towel to make the valve stay open, I understand his point, but one day for kicks try to push open a valve with the heel of your hand, those springs are strong, really, really strong. I think almost any thickness of paper towel would be crushed.
The springs have to be that strong of course to prevent valve float.
Another thing is a Diesel has no throttle valve, even at idle it pulls a full amount of air through, I would think that paper towel went through there like poop through a goose and is not there.
You can get a very inexpensive borescope that plugs into the USB port of a laptop now, its a valuable tool to have. Get a long one if you do, one day you may want to see inside of the mast or something, maybe help run wires through a liner etc.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:26   #18
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

I'm with jimbarnyard and A64 on this one. A few seconds is 20-30 (or more) revolutions. It's already out the exhaust in tiny tiny bits. If it did damage it would have been in the first few RPM's before the engine got turned off.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:29   #19
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Hello Again,
Well, she (6.354) did start up for a few seconds then shut down, did this about 6 times....now she just won't start period.
There was some carbonized Paper particles on the surface of the water below the exhaust....obviously some of the paper towel got through.
I think the safest bet is to take the head off and check.....i'm just a woooos!
Rather be safe than sorry, anyway I'll be able to decoke / reseat the valves and clean the piston tops etc.
The fuel injection side of things scares me the most....that 6.354 is a wee bugger to get the air out once its in....
Be back in a few days to let you all know if she's running.....
Thanks for the help and advice peeps, I'll get out of here one day.
all the best.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:44   #20
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

If you didn't close the sea water value while trying to start those 6 times -- make sure the engine didn't get water in the cylinders.
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Old 12-06-2017, 13:04   #21
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
A friend ended up with a $4k rebuild of his Yanmar after trying to run the engine to burn a paper towel that got sucked into the intake.

YMMV
Like to know some details on that one....


Just for grins...

6.354 intake valve dimensions (in inches)

Head Diameter - 1.741
Length - 4.838
Seat Angle - 45
Stem Diameter - 0.3729

Swept volume per cylinder for 6.354----------------- 59 cubic inches
Calculated volume of one cheap-ass paper towel
(the only kind I buy) doubled---------------------------.373 cubic inches

A 3 7/8" diameter 6.354 piston



1000 RPM translates to 16.7 RPS (revs/sec). Since a four stroke diesel has a combustion stroke every other revolution (per cylinder), we divide that by 2, for 8.3 combustion strokes per second, per cylinder, for a total of 49.8 combustion strokes per second per engine.

Sooo---given the emphasis of engine designers on intake and exhaust efficiency and the differences in the strength of steel and paper as described for common steel and kraft paper (couldn't find any tensile or yield numbers for paper towels) below, I kinda think the 'don't worry about it' makes more sense than 'you're gonna burn up your engine'...


A36 steel in plates, bars, and shapes with a thickness of less than 8 in (203 mm) has a minimum yield strength of 36,000 psi (250 MPa) and ultimate tensile strength of 58,000–80,000 psi (400–550 MPa).

Kraft paper 5772 psi yield.


But---the important thing is to do that with which you're comfortable; as little as pulling the air cleaner housing and looking inside, to dissassembling the whole top end of the engine. All comes down to how much you wanna spend on it...If you tear it down you'll be ahead on knowing on how the engine works and what's going on inside it...
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Old 12-06-2017, 13:26   #22
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Before tearing the engine down, how about putting a shop vac on the intake (and if you have them , opening decompress valves) and rotating engine by hand with out starting. Do this also on the exhaust side, maybe you could suck out any remaining paper. Use an empty shop vac to see what you may have sucked out.
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Old 12-06-2017, 13:30   #23
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

You said a small section of the towel. I think it will burn and blow out. What's the down side of trying it.
Best of luck.
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Old 12-06-2017, 14:21   #24
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Give running it a try. It could dissolve or it could clog and you'd need to get it out. Old musical refrain: "Right back where I started from. True story: Working on carburetor of old gasoline engine, dropped a small screw into carb, It made it to manifold and into a cylinder. Figured, screw it, (no pun even considered), and reved engine. Heck of a rattle for a few moments, then, ... nothing except the normal sound of an engine. No idea if it melted (it was brass) or managed to get to exhaust valve and exit. No noticeable problems ensued. A few years later I had reason to tear down engine. With the incident in mind, I checked each cylinder and piston, the combustion chambers in the head, and each valve and location. Nothing, nada, zero, at least that I could identify as damage or any sign that such thing had occurred. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, Ya pays your money and take your chances. May you have a good outcome. BTW, it just cost me $125 to have a toilet rooted out. Guess what? Either my wife or I had used Bounty to clean the (home) head, and flushed the used towels. If you were to guess, me, you'd lose. Better luck to you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 14:49   #25
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by nautitrix View Post
Just to add to the lore.
I don't know about the clearances on the Perkins but I do know of a 471 gimmy that started running away on bad rings and sump oil. It swallowed an entire blanket and was finally shut down with a piece of 5/8 plywood.
Let us know what you decide and what happens please.
I don't follow the relevance to the OP? Running away with a worn out diesel is not uncommon, running on sump oil. Cutting off the air is the only way to shut one down. A rain slicker works well.
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Old 12-06-2017, 14:53   #26
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I don't follow the relevance to the OP? Running away with a worn out diesel is not uncommon, running on sump oil. Cutting off the air is the only way to shut one down. A rain slicker works well.


I think the point was it ate a blanket and didn't blow up. A paper towel by comparison should be much less traumatic.
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Old 12-06-2017, 15:23   #27
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Having just completed a total cleaning of my Bowman Heat Exchanger and tube core on my bullet proof non Turbo Perkins 6.354, I had taken off my K&N Air filter to clean that as well.......
So, I thought I'd just run up the 'ol Perkins to check for any Coolant / Raw water leaks etc etc.
While I was bending over in the close confines of my Engine Bay a small section of Paper Towel fell out of my pocket and was immediately sucked into the air intake ....I shut the Perkins down within a matter of seconds, but, hopefully, have not done any damage.
Question is....should I try to restart the Perkins and attempt to Blow the paper towel particles out of the exhaust or remove the head and clean it all out first..... as you all know 'tis a lot of work to do this, but, she's a good girl and I really don't want to force her to blow the towel out of the exhaust.
I had removed the air intake assembly again to see if I could locate any sign of the errant paper towel....but, couldn't see anything.
The Valve clearances are only .008" on the intake and 018" on the exhaust...hard to believe that the paper towel could get through this small space.
I've never run into this situation before....just hoping some of you out there may have experienced this issue and can advise me on if you think it's safe to try and run her without the chance of bending a Valve stem or should I take the safe route and take her all apart again....I can always decarbonize the valves, reseat them and inspect the tops of the pistons etc. if I did that.....but there goes my 2017 season.
Look forward to the suggestions....and I know I'll get the "funnies" as well..
Just seen this come up on facebook.. If you can't use a piece of wire to clear a seaweed or plastic bag clogged seawater intake hose just opened up the filter top and have your wife swim under the boat with a plunger- with two or three pushes on the plunger it clears it right away
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Old 12-06-2017, 15:44   #28
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

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Originally Posted by powsmias View Post
Just seen this come up on facebook.. If you can't use a piece of wire to clear a seaweed or plastic bag clogged seawater intake hose just opened up the filter top and have your wife swim under the boat with a plunger- with two or three pushes on the plunger it clears it right away
It was a paper towel into the air intake, not raw water.
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Old 12-06-2017, 17:29   #29
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

I bet you get better acceleration now. After all Bounty is the quicker picker upper. Sorry, it had to be said.
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Old 12-06-2017, 19:14   #30
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Re: Ooops sucked paper towel (Bounty) into Perkins 6.354 air intake

Hopcar....that was a good one....definite huge chuckle at this end.
OK, the story thus far.....after sitting at home tonight, going over and over the Bounty towel situation, my stupidity and after running through my head everything I had done in the work leading up to the unfortunate incident.....a HUGE, BIG, MASSIVE Light bulb lit up and almost blinded me.
I grabbed the car keys and even though I was tempted to drive at excessive speeds to get to my "Baby" I drove at the legal limit until I pulled up at the dock.....then moving at warp speed I opened the companion way Hatch, jump down into the engine bay, engine Oil ok,....opened the Perkins sea cock, turned the Dual Racor valve assembly to the ON position , turned the ignition on and hit the start button......after approx 5 seconds of turning over....she burst into life....the sweetest sound I've ever heard!!!!!!
She purred like the wee kitten she always was....I let her run at idle for a minute or two and then engaged the forward gear and slowly increased the RPM's up to her normal running speed and let her stay there for 20 minutes.
Max temp 190f....yipee, I almost had an organism
So, all appears good, She'll be just fine...I'll clean her up tomorrow, tidy up the tools and the boat in general and then wait for the weather window, time to get out of here, Scotland here I come
A huge thanks to all that shared their advice / experiences, that's what makes the Cruiser community such a wonderful group to be part of.
You're all gems.
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