Oil Soaked Starter Motor????

[sanibel sailor]

and an explanation of how to install a lip seal on this engine. Requires a bit of custom machining of existing parts and some skillful fabrication of new custom parts. When I had mine apart, I decided I could live with a tiny bit of oil leak compared to this complexity...

https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/cs202a.htm

[strandte]

I had the exact same problem as you when I bought my boat and sailed/motored it home from England. In my case it was the lip seal on the incoming transmission axle (facing the flywheel house/motor) that had dried up during storage on land and developed a leek. I got gear oil into my starter. It seems there are no drain hole in the lower parts of my flywheel house, so the oil splashes around in there and soaks the starter.
Even after changing the lip seal and pumping the flywheel house with a sump drain pump there is stil traces of oil coming from the flywheel house. I should probably have taken the time to remove the flywheel house and cleaned it before assembling the motor and transmission again, but I was in a hurry getting on with my transport of the boat home to Norway and the hell hole that the motor and transmission is located in does not make any of these repairs easy. I was just glad to find the problem and have fixed it while we were temporarily hanging in a buoy in Calais in France.
My motor is a old Perkins 4.326 with a borg warner Velvet drive.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

That lip seal is for the W50 and W60 engines, not the W30. Noted in the parts list. Here's a better link.

Torresen Marine

I thought about trying to install one on my W30 but the crank journal does not stick out for a bearing surface.

The Spitfire had a different 1500 cc gas engine. Oil filter on left, distributor drive in middle (vs aft on the W30), mechanical fuel pump aft instead of middle.Intake and exhaust are on left on W30, right on Spitfire. I don't know what engine is in a Spitfire, but it is not a BMC B-Series.
Here's a picture of it and a diagram.

You're right about the seal.

That's what I get for looking at the pretty pictures instead of reading those pesky words.

Sorry about that.

Think you might have it backwards, or perhaps sideways, on the engine models though. The 4-91 is based on the A series BMC engine. My Spitfire engine is a 1492 cc B series engine (they ranged from about 1200 to 2400cc [6cyl]). Oddly enough, the 1.5 B series also had a diesel version, apparently fairly popular and still in use in some places.

My confusion again resulted from assumption (you know what they say), based on a quick look at the basic construction similarities (3 brg main crank, ohv, etc.).

Both engines had the same beginnings though, in the engines made around the WWII period by Austin Motor Company, are very similar in construction, and shared many designers.

[sanibel sailor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_B-series_engine

B series has a particularly heave block, making it suitable for diesel converion.
Here's a B series gas in a Nash
plugs (injectors on dieel) on right, exhaust on right, etc

Spitfire is not a B serie engine. I don't know what it is.

B was a replacement for the A series, an even more archaic engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine

[jimbunyard]

Well, looks like I'm destined to eat crow on this one, cause you're right again.

And I should know better (now that you've refreshed my memory 'it's all coming back') having worked on MGA's, B's, Midgets and Triumphs in the late 70's and early 80's. Had you asked me then, would have told you in no uncertain terms that the Spitfire engine had nothing to do with the MGs and Midget, until the Spitfire engine was put into the Midget late in the Midget's model life.

Not that it matters, the Spitfire engine is known as an 'SC' engine, and though it has many similarities to both the A & B BMC engines (as can be seen in the drawings you posted earlier) it might better be looked at as competition to them. That all three were first manufactured at almost the same time muddies the question of who influenced (or outright copied) who, or if all three are products of 'convergent evolution'.

It is stated in one of the Wiki articles that Austin copied the overhead valve design from Chevrolet, so that illustrates even more the mixed heritage of all these marquees.


Not sure if I agree with the 'archaic' designation of the 'A' model engines though, since both were designed within a year of each other and since, according to the Wiki article, it is still in production, whilst the 'B' series went out of production in 1986.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_B-series_engine



B series has a particularly heave block, making it suitable for diesel converion.

Here's a B series gas in a Nash

plugs (injectors on dieel) on right, exhaust on right, etc



Spitfire is not a B serie engine. I don't know what it is.



B was a replacement for the A series, an even more archaic engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine

Wow Sanibel sailor, you sure know your engines[emoji844]. Thanks for the information and the links.
Pete.

[sanibel sailor]

The knowledge was all gained painfully. Largely in an effort to source obsolete parts or avoid Westerbeke's extortionist parts prices.

Sources- UK narrowboats still use this marinized engine

BMC 1500 tractor, aka Leyland 154

I actually did a complete rebuild on one of these as my first ever engine job. Here's a tip- for your first rebuild, don't pick a rare, foreign, obsolete engine... Shoulda done a 350 Chevy engine first, but where's the challenge in that?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

The knowledge was all gained painfully. Largely in an effort to source obsolete parts or avoid Westerbeke's extortionist parts prices.

Sources- UK narrowboats still use this marinized engine

BMC 1500 tractor, aka Leyland 154

I actually did a complete rebuild on one of these as my first ever engine job. Here's a tip- for your first rebuild, don't pick a rare, foreign, obsolete engine... Shoulda done a 350 Chevy engine first, but where's the challenge in that?

Drifting the thread some more....

Do you known if BMC did the diesel conversion themselves or was it outsourced elsewhere?

I ask because I have a BMC Mini tractor which is powered by a 950 cc BMC engine (of BMC Mini fame) that was diesel converted by Ricardo and I am always seeking more historical information about English engines in general.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

.......

Spitfire is not a B serie engine. I don't know what it is.

...........

We all know it was a V12 Rolls Royce Merlin and later a Rolls Royce Griffon

[sanibel sailor]

Originally Posted by Wotname

We all know it was a V12 Rolls Royce Merlin and later a Rolls Royce Griffon

Now THERE'S an appealing Spitfire

[sanibel sailor]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Drifting the thread some more....

Do you known if BMC did the diesel conversion themselves or was it outsourced elsewhere?

I ask because I have a BMC Mini tractor which is powered by a 950 cc BMC engine (of BMC Mini fame) that was diesel converted by Ricardo and I am always seeking more historical information about English engines in general.

Given the huge number of variations of the B series, and its use also in a few automotive applications (e.g. Austin taxis), I would guess the diesel version was done in house. But- I also would have guessed the same of the 954. I am more curious as to who did the marinization for the UK narrowboats. There are some specialty shops that are a great parts source for the diesels still, even with costs of shipping to the US.

[Desertroseii]

Originally Posted by strandte

I had the exact same problem as you when I bought my boat and sailed/motored it home from England. In my case it was the lip seal on the incoming transmission axle (facing the flywheel house/motor) that had dried up during storage on land and developed a leek. I got gear oil into my starter. It seems there are no drain hole in the lower parts of my flywheel house, so the oil splashes around in there and soaks the starter.
Even after changing the lip seal and pumping the flywheel house with a sump drain pump there is stil traces of oil coming from the flywheel house. I should probably have taken the time to remove the flywheel house and cleaned it before assembling the motor and transmission again, but I was in a hurry getting on with my transport of the boat home to Norway and the hell hole that the motor and transmission is located in does not make any of these repairs easy. I was just glad to find the problem and have fixed it while we were temporarily hanging in a buoy in Calais in France.
My motor is a old Perkins 4.326 with a borg warner Velvet drive.

I have Perkins 4236 which keeps wetting the starter motor. I have a drain plug at the bottom of my flywheel housing. When I removed the plug no oil came out to my surprise. So I cut a small groove in the starter motor housing to let any oil which gets inside the motor to drain.
But the question remains: how oil can get to the starter motor without collecting at the bottom of the flywheel housing?