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Old 01-03-2023, 16:12   #1
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Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Hi,

I have an oil leak from the front oil seal on a Hurth HBW 150 v-drive. I think if I can remove the flange from the drive shaft I should be able to replace the oil seal.

However, based on the part diagram(linked PDF). The flange is part of the drive shaft?

I've attach the only photo of the flange when I successfully replaced the back oil. There is a snap ring slightly visible in the photo. If I remove the snap ring can the flange then be removed?

Link to the repair manual for the transmission. HBW 150 is on page 66. File size was too big to attach to the forum.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A7-...w?usp=drivesdk

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 01-03-2023, 21:23   #2
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Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

The details are here on page 42 of your linked manual. Undo the nut #83 and it all comes apart[ATTACH]
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Old 02-03-2023, 11:09   #3
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

The nut you are referring to would require opening the transmission then pressing out the gears to replace the oil seal. I've since put the transmission back together which is how I found the front oil seal leak.

I would like to remove the flange without having to remove the transmission again. It would be much a easier procedure to replace the seal. I'm still puzzled by the snap ring in the photo, it's not in the repair manual.
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Old 02-03-2023, 14:00   #4
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Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Yes, opening er up again to do the flange seal is your only option. The snap ring might have been retrofitted to move the shaft or the seal to a different wear area, this is a standard tactic with Yanmar saildrives on the prop shaft.
Test for leaks before re installing the assembled gearbox either by overfilling it with the recommended oil or with a manometer and very low pressure air
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Old 03-03-2023, 15:09   #5
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Damn, I was hoping it would be an easy fix. It's a small drip leak for now, I'll address it in a few months...

Thanks for the info!
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Old 25-08-2023, 12:52   #6
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Hi Mikeappears!
I'm also trying to replace those seals. I've managed to source them under Alto Part# 31406 for $19 ea. The rear seal was easy to replace but the front seal which is behind the flange is difficult.

I agree with skipperpete that you have to remove Ring Nut #83. That nut is dimpled onto the shaft and will likely require you to replace it. That's exactly where I'm stuck.

I think a 4-lug 2-3/8" Lock Nut Socket will remove that nut after cutting out the dimple.

Right now I'm having a hard time finding a replacement for Ring Nut #83 since it goes by so many names (i.e. flange nut, spindle nut, retainer nut) and also several part numbers (3306 304 010 and 195413)

Did you source a replacement for the ring nut?

Did you manage to remove it and replace your oil seal?

Cheers
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Old 25-08-2023, 13:39   #7
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

SVAmbrosia,

Nope, haha!
It's a small leak so I've been topping it off every month.

I'd like to fix it but a bit hesitant that I may make the leak worst.

Please keep me posted on your progress! It would be helpful to know how to do it.
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Old 29-08-2023, 14:32   #8
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAmbrosia View Post
Hi Mikeappears!
I'm also trying to replace those seals. I've managed to source them under Alto Part# 31406 for $19 ea. The rear seal was easy to replace but the front seal which is behind the flange is difficult.

I agree with skipperpete that you have to remove Ring Nut #83. That nut is dimpled onto the shaft and will likely require you to replace it. That's exactly where I'm stuck.

I think a 4-lug 2-3/8" Lock Nut Socket will remove that nut after cutting out the dimple.

Right now I'm having a hard time finding a replacement for Ring Nut #83 since it goes by so many names (i.e. flange nut, spindle nut, retainer nut) and also several part numbers (3306 304 010 and 195413)

Did you source a replacement for the ring nut?

Did you manage to remove it and replace your oil seal?

Cheers


Removing nut 83 is an over simplification.

That transmission must be removed from the engine and the two case halves separated.
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Old 29-08-2023, 15:27   #9
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

No one ever suggested otherwise, the lower seal can be replaced fairly easily once the gearbox is out but the top seal is a split and strip project.
It is actually possible to change the lower seal in situ but by the time the propshaft is extracted ( to install the seal) and the hellish place where that seal resides under the back of the flywheel housing .....the gearbox removal is practically done and is way easier to work on. And you get to check the drive plate too.
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Old 31-08-2023, 09:18   #10
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
No one ever suggested otherwise, the lower seal can be replaced fairly easily once the gearbox is out but the top seal is a split and strip project.
It is actually possible to change the lower seal in situ but by the time the propshaft is extracted ( to install the seal) and the hellish place where that seal resides under the back of the flywheel housing .....the gearbox removal is practically done and is way easier to work on. And you get to check the drive plate too.
Hi there Skipperpete!

Do you know where I can source a replacement for ring nut #83?
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Old 31-08-2023, 15:28   #11
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

In the US.... I have no idea who sells ZF marine parts ( I’m in Australia) but Marinedirect.com.au might be a useful lead ....or ZF itself. Last time I did one of these, I got a parts kit from Singapore and made up a tool to remove that #83 nut by getting a big
¾ “ drive socket and cutting/ sculpting it with an angle grinder and a big dremel to suit the nut. Here’s the part numbers.
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Old 09-09-2023, 23:35   #12
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Update - I completed the job

1.) Preparation of the flange nut removal tool It was difficult to source the appropriate wrench to remove the flange nut. A custom tool had to be fabricated from a 2-5/8" spindle nut tool wrench (performance tools). This tool is readily available on amazon for $20 under ASIN B000N34ANM. The conversion of 2-5/8" to metric equates to 66.7 mm, therefore approximately 3-4 mm of material was removed from the diameter to ensure a proper fit inside the flange cavity (see previous post with calipers measuring flange nut clearance). A rotary tool equipped with a stone grinder removed the excess material from the spindle nut wrench. The removal of excess material took many hours but proved worthwhile, Figure 1.

2.) Removal of the flange nut . With the transmission in place, the prop shaft collar was removed and the flange nut was exposed. A breaker bar could not loosen the flange nut due to the engine turning over - even with the transmission in gear. A torque wrench indicated that the transmission would turn the piston past top dead center with approximately 60 ft*lb of torque applied at the flange nut. Therefore, a different approach was required. A 1/2" impact driver was purchased from Harbor Freight Tools (Chicago electric) for $45 under the SKU number of 61173. The impact wrench was able to remove the nut with ease and to my surprise, did not impart any torque upon the transmission output shaft (i.e. the shaft did not turn. Conversely, I could tighten the flange nut using the impact driver with the disassembled quill shaft in my hand and the impact driver would not spin the shaft). It was my first time using an impact wrench and I was impressed!

3.) Inspection of the output shaft flange. With the transmission still in place, the flange was removed from the spline. This was a surprise, since It was not evident from my interpretation of the diagrams in the repair manual. In fact, the images from the manual show the flange nut on the opposite side of the output shaft - completely backwards, Figure 2. Red silicone sealant coated the spline, Figure 3. I took note of the presence of sealant and also applied some during the reassembly of the flange. I'll talk more about why I decided to use sealant later on in this post.

4.) Inspection of the front oil seal mating surface. Inspection of the flange revealed that the mating surface for the oil seal was worn, Figure 4. To ensure an adequate seal, the mating surface would have to be repaired. The average diameter of the mating surface was measured with calipers and determined as 2.555" +- 0.001" (n=3). The closest fitting sleeves were either SKF 99254 or SKF 99253. I made the decision to use SKF 99254 which is meant for shafts no smaller than 64.92 mm and no larger than 65.07 mm. The reason for choosing SKF 99254 is that the ZF/Hurth manual specifies that this shaft is 65 mm nominal and therefore I decided to use this size sleeve despite my measurements (2.555" = 64.90 mm which is only 20 microns smaller that specified by SKF). Two sets of SKF 99254 were purchased from amazon for $40 ea. under the ASIN B00CLIN7BI.

5.) Sleeving the front oil seal mating surface. The SKF sleeve was installed by hammering the sleeve unto the flange with the provided tool in the SKF speedi-sleeve kit. I opted to retain the speedi-sleeve brim and keep it on the flange, Figure 5. The fitment was tight and satisfactory; however, the sleeve protruded significantly past the flange - a detail that I had overlooked, Figure 6. The solution was to trim the excess material as close to the flange as possible because the flange forms a facial seal to the spline shaft, Figure 7. Any imperfections in this facial seal (i.e. scratches, antiparallel faces, etc.) will cause transmission fluid to leak past and weep along the spline shaft. This is the reason why the previous repair attempt used silicone sealant on the spline and which is why I too applied sealant to this facial seal and along the spline during reassembly. The sheared edge of the sleeve was de-burred with 80 grit sandpaper and smoothed with 220 grit to prevent tearing of the oil seal.

6.) Inspection of the rear oil seal mating surface. To gain access to the rear oil seal, the transmission was removed from the engine and split open. The rear oil seal mating surface is integral to the output (quill) shaft and located at the aft-most portion of the output shaft. Inspection the surface finish revealed large dimples likely due to corrosion, Figure 8. The shaft diameter was measured with calipers to be 2.556" +- 0.001" (n=3) and the remaining SKF 99254 speedi-sleeve was used to repair this surface.

7.) Sleeving the rear oil seal mating surface. Steel reinforced epoxy (JB Weld) applied as filler onto the shaft ensured that no gaps would negate the interference fit of the speedi-sleeve, Figure 9. While the steel reinforced epoxy was still tacky, the SKF speedi-sleeve was installed with the provided tool. Excess epoxy was removed from the quill shaft with a clean rag. The excess sleeve material was trimmed and the sheared edge of the sleeve was de-burred and smoothed to prevent tearing of the oil seal, Figure 10.

8.) Oil seal installation and shaft reassembly. Two oil seals were sourced form Basic Power Industries using the product ID ALT316406. The lips of the seals were lubricated copiously with Teflon grease. The sheared edges of the speedi-sleeves were also covered in Teflon grease and the oil seals were installed on their respective mating surfaces taking extreme care not to rip/tear the seals on any protruding speedi-sleeve material (think of newly opened tin can). Once both oil seals were installed, a small amount of silicone sealant was applied to the flange facial seal and to the spline shaft of the output flange. While the silicone was still wet, the flange was mated to the output shaft and the ring nut was installed with finger tightness. After 15 minutes, the ring nut was tightened with impact driver and improvised ring nut tool, Figure 11. The output shaft was placed back into the transmission case, both halves were bolted together, the transmission was mounted to the engine, the prop shaft collar was installed and the prop shaft was secured. Transmission fluid filled to the mark on the dipstick and then I walked away and poured myself a drink.

9.) Testing Now the big question, does it hold up? Well, I motored around for 30 minutes and didn't catch a drop of transmission fluid on the oil adsorbent pads. I'll keep you all posted on how this repair holds up with time.

I hope that this write-up inspires others to repair their own V-drive transmissions when the time inevitably comes. If you find typos, broken links or incorrect information in this post, please let me know so I may edit it accordingly.
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Old 09-09-2023, 23:59   #13
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

That’s a really excellent post and the clearest description of the overhaul procedure I’ve ever seen, congratulations on a job well done[emoji106]
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Old 11-09-2023, 14:28   #14
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

SVAmbrosia,
Good to know you got it fixed. Very informative instructions and product links!

Your photos #3 suggest the output shaft flange is removable without have to take out the transmission.

I will give it a try once I get everything ready.

Thanks!
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Old 11-09-2023, 23:02   #15
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Re: Oil seal leak/replace, Hurth HBW-150 V-Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeappears View Post
SVAmbrosia,
...
Your photos #3 suggest the output shaft flange is removable without have to take out the transmission.
...
That is correct. You can get the flange off the transmission with just an impact driver.

The new front seal installs easiest with the transmission case split open. When both halves of the transmission are closed, they pinch the oil seal so tight that it can't move at all. Getting the old seal out might not be troublesome but installing the new one might be impossible without splitting the case.

I tightened my case bolts to 13 ft*lbs and the oil seals were impossible to move in or out. I actually had to loosed the case to adjust their position.

Your results may vary. Good luck!
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