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Old 21-09-2019, 09:31   #76
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
How can you use a feeler gauge in this case? The Perkins 4154 valve cover has a lip around the perimeter. That lip is maybe 2 or 3 mm high above (well, below, once cover is installed over valves) the sealing surface. Wouldn't that prevent insertion of a feeler gauge?

If you could insert a feeler gauge, that would indeed be a huge leak.
Did you try checking for a crack in the cover? Maybe plug the holes and fill with water. Or have you determined the exact location of the leak by careful monitoring while engine is running?

The cover does have a small lip but the gasket stands proud of the cover so I could insert a feeler between the top of the head and the gasket. I have feeler gauges down to thousandths which wouldn't be that huge.


I thought the leak was at the low end of the cover (the engine, like most is installed at an angle with the back of the engine lower than the front). Last trial I pulled the cover off and saw a trail of oil on the bottom of the gasket (between gasket and head) leading from the front of the block, down one side of the gasket to the back. The other side was perfectly clean and dry.
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Old 21-09-2019, 09:44   #77
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

Permatex sell a tube of silicone specifically for oil resistance. For doing car oilpans, transmissions etc. Black goop, tube has black label, about $7. The red goop will let go in oil eventually. While at the autoparts place buying that, pick up a spray can of brake cleaner, $3, which will degrease the valve cover rim and edge of cylinder head nicely, and evaporate off cleanly.

Before you put any gasket in place set the cover onto the 4 studs and then pressing around the edge where it seals see if you get any rocking as you go around, to check for flatness. If wobbly fix by tapping lightly with a hammer with the sealing flange backed up on a bit of wood. Normally a valve cover gasket doesn't need a sealant, but a smear on each side of it then installation is fine. A rubber grommet for each stud, then a large diameter washer (fender washer) and you can apply a decently level of torque and compress the seal and goop down.

I'm always suspicious of a second torqueing down after the goop has set. Why risk breaking open a good seal obtained when the goop was tacky?
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Old 21-09-2019, 16:33   #78
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
The cover does have a small lip but the gasket stands proud of the cover so I could insert a feeler between the top of the head and the gasket. I have feeler gauges down to thousandths which wouldn't be that huge.


I thought the leak was at the low end of the cover (the engine, like most is installed at an angle with the back of the engine lower than the front). Last trial I pulled the cover off and saw a trail of oil on the bottom of the gasket (between gasket and head) leading from the front of the block, down one side of the gasket to the back. The other side was perfectly clean and dry.


How about putting a short hose on the crank case vent pipe and blowing into it while brushing the suspect area with soapy water. The dipstick and oil filler might need to be blocked if they're not airtight but even a little bit of positive crankcase pressure will find your leak.
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Old 22-09-2019, 07:48   #79
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

As mentioned earlier, my gut says you want the aviation Permatex that is like glue. Not the red silicone Permatex for this.
I like the post above about setting the cover on a flat surface and see if it rocks or is warped.
Also make sure the mating surface on the cover isn't warped like this from over tightening:
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Old 22-09-2019, 09:58   #80
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
As mentioned earlier, my gut says you want the aviation Permatex that is like glue. Not the red silicone Permatex for this.
I like the post above about setting the cover on a flat surface and see if it rocks or is warped.
Also make sure the mating surface on the cover isn't warped like this from over tightening:

Unfortunately I'm on an island with limited options for buying stuff unless I do mail order which takes at least 4-5 days and I really want to get this done. The red Permatex I have is very thick, gooey and certainly like glue in that it works as an adhesive. Also very good gap filling. The biggest concern is it is a pretty good adhesive so getting the cover off again may be a bit of a fight, involving bloody knuckles and a number of words that I would not repeat around the grandkids. But I'm saying this to the 5200 guy so maybe moot.


And I have set the cover on flat surfaces, checked with short and long straight edges and eyeballed it every which way and don't see any obvious issues.


And I have been very careful on the tightening and that might be part of the problem. Perhaps I was not aggressive enough. Have not found any actual ft lbs spec for how tight nor gotten any advise in the thread beyond tight but not too tight kind of comments.



Using my calibrated fingers I guesstimate my first try was in the range of 2-3 ft lbs at most. Any comments on whether that is just right, too little or too much?
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Old 22-09-2019, 10:06   #81
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

Uses some black napa form a gasket you dont need a gasket at all with that stuff and the can is useful in an emergency if you have to seal anything on the boat
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Old 22-09-2019, 14:51   #82
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

[QUOTE=skipmac;2981881]Unfortunately I'm on an island with limited options for buying stuff unless I do mail order which takes at least 4-5 days and I really want to get this done. The red Permatex I have is very thick, gooey and certainly like glue in that it works as an adhesive. Also very good gap filling. The biggest concern is it is a pretty good adhesive so getting the cover off again may be a bit of a fight, involving bloody knuckles and a number of words that I would not repeat around the grandkids. But I'm saying this to the 5200 guy so maybe moot.

One method to get around the sticking is to oil the head face before you put it on, tighten 1/2 way as i mentioned earlier & then torque the final amount after its cured. You are then relying on the pressure on the mating surface rather than the adhesion
But I dont know if I'd oil in your case as joint sounds a bit problematic. I dont find silicone joints too hard to get apart but I usually only put silicone on one face & let it go off before bolting up.
You should be able to cut thru the silicone with a long box cutter type blade if you have a nice thick layer. ( I'd recommend a thick layer )
Gave up on limey engines long ago though, having said that our yanmar is based on a Limey design. They just forgot to include the leaks
If your rocker cover is flat I'm surprised it giving issues.
Sorry cant help on ft/lbs, it's a feel thing for me but to the point just short of distortion.
Please post back what happens. We are rootn 4 ya.
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Old 22-09-2019, 15:47   #83
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

The torque on those top rubbers is such that a new rubber will squish out to just a tick past the edge of the washer.
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Old 22-09-2019, 16:13   #84
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Oil leak from valve cover

Not sure it helps but GM Vortec engine’s seem to have center line bolts for their valve covers, torque spec 106 inlbs
LS series engines (the new smallblock) aren’t center line bolts, but the torque spec is 106 inlbs.
Coincidentally or not, but oil pan 6mm bolts torque spec is 106 inlbs too.
106 is an odd number, I’m thinking it may translate to an even number of newton meters?

106 inlbs is close to 9 ftlbs, which seems a lot.
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:10   #85
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Not sure it helps but GM Vortec engine’s seem to have center line bolts for their valve covers, torque spec 106 inlbs
LS series engines (the new smallblock) aren’t center line bolts, but the torque spec is 106 inlbs.
Coincidentally or not, but oil pan 6mm bolts torque spec is 106 inlbs too.
106 is an odd number, I’m thinking it may translate to an even number of newton meters?

106 inlbs is close to 9 ftlbs, which seems a lot.

9 does sound like a lot and certainly a lot more than I was using.
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:30   #86
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Update

Here's the latest.


Friday I sealed the gasket to the valve cover and let it dry overnight. Saturday I took it to the boat, wiped the heads of excess oil, coated the mating surface with good layer of Permatex and bolted the cover on with a bit more torque than before.


Let that dry overnight and went back to the boat today to test and OH $#!%, literally. Some nasty seabird had moved on the boat and crapped EVERYWHERE. There was so much residue it could have been a small flock. So first job was to clean the deck off enough to get below without tracking the residue inside.


After I got that done (and stringing some monofilament around the boat to discourage a return) I checked the engine, cranked it up and it ran about 60 seconds and died. %$$^%#$@&!!!!! In the process of climbing around in the engine room I managed to shut the valve on the fuel filter and starved the engine and have to bleed the system.



By that time I had had enough and decided to go home and call it a day.



Ain't boating fun?
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:38   #87
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Re: Update

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By that time I had had enough and decided to go home and call it a day.



?
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:40   #88
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Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
9 does sound like a lot and certainly a lot more than I was using.


Did to me too, but that’s for a 6mm bolt too. About the same size as a 1/4” bolt, a little larger.
I have a 30 to 150 inlb torque wrench for small stuff, 9 ftlbs may be tough to measure with a large torque wrench, but you could always use a fish scale on a regular wrench.

I assume engine manual is no help?
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:50   #89
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Re: Oil leak from valve cover

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Did to me too, but that’s for a 6mm bolt too. About the same size as a 1/4” bolt, a little larger.
I have a 30 to 150 inlb torque wrench for small stuff, 9 ftlbs may be tough to measure with a large torque wrench, but you could always use a fish scale on a regular wrench.

I assume engine manual is no help?

Manual did not address the valve cover except I think to mention remove it to adjust the valves.


And yes I used a small scale and a socket wrench. Probably not exact but close enough for government work.
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Old 22-09-2019, 17:51   #90
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Re: Update

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After all, tomorrow is another day.
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