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Old 04-11-2021, 08:30   #1
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Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Hi folks,

We have a Vancouver 42 (mid-1990s, but new to us in fall 2019) and have been prepping for blue water. Alas, out on a shakedown this summer, our engine (450 hours on the rebuild, 350 hours when we purchased, mid 1990s Isuzu) blew up. Looks like 3 or 4 fuel injectors went down and there was a defective pump. There was also fine spray of oil everywhere when the engine went, which the theory is was a crank case breather / internal engine damage.

First question--any thoughts on why a crank case breather goes suddenly? I'm being told "maintenance." The boat was serviced in March and again in June, when I'd asked the guys to check over the engine and make sure we were shakedown ready, and everything recommended as maintenance and repair was done, so I thought we were good. What am I missing? All the oil and fluid was good when it was towed in.

Second question--I have to assume that I am looking, gulp, at a new engine. Thoughts pro/con on the Yanmar 4JH57 engine with the ZF transmission?

Third question--thoughts on transitioning over to electric given that I have to tear everything out as an alternative? Is that realistic? Desirable? Cost prohibitive? Don't know much about electric alternatives but poking around in some research and would love to hear any experience.

Or if anyone is looking for a Vancouver 42 needing a new engine, I'll make you hell of a deal LOL.

Thanks for any thoughts on my engine woes.
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:04   #2
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

You might consider a rebuilt from dieselenginetraders.

Love my Yanmars. Wouldn't buy anything else.
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:21   #3
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

If the engine didn't physically disintegrate into tiny chunks of iron, even a complete short block rebuild would seem to be cheaper than tearing out the entire propulsion system and putting on a bunch of solar panels, gigantic batteries, controllers and such
If you do plan to rebuild, check with the mechanic and see what you can do for prep to cut down yard fees.
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Old 04-11-2021, 10:46   #4
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Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Converting to electric would not be cost prohibitive.
Desirable? That’s up to you.
Resale value would probably go down.

Best option would be to go parallel hybrid, small diesel & similar power electric motor share the same shaft. You can have as much power as you currently have for brief periods, or economy cruising power as long as the fuel lasts or electric power to get in and out of marinas and anchoring and brief spurts of power to help thru tacks or get out of the way of big ships. And unlimited range at very low speeds depending on how much solar and battery capacity are installed.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/

Repairing the current motor is the cheapest option probably.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:11   #5
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Swiching to a different engine could seriously complicate your life. The new engine will have different mounts, hose connections, cable locations, electrical connections, through hulls, and a different size. It sounds easy but it isn't. Consider either a rebuild or replacing with exactly the same engine and transmission.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:27   #6
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Thanks all--mulling all this and appreciate you taking time to weigh in.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:40   #7
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

I am interested in your boat if you are considering selling at a good price point. You can contact me directly at sailingdanandloraine@gmail.com. Where is the boat currently located?
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:47   #8
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

A bad injector will cause very high temperature on top of piston to the point of piercing it. That will cause the blowback and oil spitting thru pcv.

Have you lifted the head to look at top of pistons?
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:05   #9
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

I danced around and constantly making small repairs to a W40 Westerbeke. Finally went for a complete new power train. That has turned out to be a smart decision. What was a poor decision was selecting a Volvo Penta D2-50 engine. Getting tech information or any specification from Volvo Penta USA is near impossible. To do it again I would have gone with Beta Marine engine. The Volvo is now in and running and it is really sweet running.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:09   #10
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

I have a V42CC with a Yanmar 4JH5E and a Kanzaki drive. Good motor for the boat. Plenty of power to spare. You need at least 50 HP to move a V42 in tough conditions IMHO.

As far as blowby/ oil misting out ot vent system you are getting compression pressure into the crank case. Could be a head gasket, broken piston, broken ring amoungst others. Best do a compression test and to really pin point the issue a cylinder leak down test would be helpful. Or pull the head off and check the pistons for a hole burned into the head of the piston or a crack.

I'd find out what the problem is before making any decisions. Might be more cost effective to fix what you have. Or put a factory rebuilt in. Maybe...

Where is the boat located?
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:16   #11
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Logan:

Is chagrin at your engine packing it in causing you to jump to conclusions?

Your boat is a really nice boat designed by a competent designer, Robert Harris, and probably not as "far gone" as your post would indicate that you think it is. The way you formulated your questions would indicate to me that you are over-reacting because you haven't been around boats long enuff :-)!

Blow-back through the breather can certainly indicate interior damage. Were you aboard when the engine blew? What sort of noises did it make? Who did the diagnosis for you? What is that person's pecuniary interest in the diagnosis? Do you know enuff about diesel engines to make a reasonable diagnosis yourself?

You talk of "blue water". Yet you talk of a Yammerer with common rail injection. Why would you accept unnecessary complexities if you are gonna leave the USA and scull around distant parts of the world all on your lonesome?

If I were you, I think I'd just bite the bullet: Have a new engine. But not a Yammerer, let alone a Volvo, because they and their parts are costly. I would go for a BETA because the BETA is actually a Kubota industrial engine with a few bags hung on to marinize it. Kubota industrials are in use all over the world, so parts are available everywhere, should you need them, and quite cheap compared with parts for other engines. Mechanics competent to work on a Kubota exist in every part of the world.

Your boat displaces 13 tons, so by my lights, a 50HP machine would be good. 4HP per ton as a rule of thumb. Depending on HOW you cruise and WHERE you cruise you might get away with 25 or 30 HP, but why would you do that, when the cost difference twixt 30 and 50HP really isn't all that significant?

BETA will supply adapter motor mounts that will enable you (or your mechanic) to drop a new BETA straight onto the existing engine bearers, so don't worry about that! Just order the right bits when you talk to the local BETA dealer. The tranny is a separate consideration from the engine, and the one you have will not have been damaged by whatever damaged your existing engine.

A brand new 50-horse BETA, professionally installed, may be expected to set you back about 10 grand. If I owned a Vancouver 42 and intended to go "blue water", that is most certainly what I would do!

Don't even THINK about going electric. Leave that to the experienced people who really know what they are doing with it!

All the best!

TrentePieds
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:17   #12
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

I think Yanmar or Beta would be a good choice. I would avoid Turbo models.
1)It's just more to go wrong and there have been plenty of threads here on CF about Turbo issues.
2) Turbo is often used to gain HP on a smaller block/engine. For longevity and simplicity, what you want is a bigger block at the lower HP rating in that block size.
3) JMHO
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Old 05-11-2021, 10:03   #13
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Logan:

Is chagrin at your engine packing it in causing you to jump to conclusions?

Your boat is a really nice boat designed by a competent designer, Robert Harris, and probably not as "far gone" as your post would indicate that you think it is. The way you formulated your questions would indicate to me that you are over-reacting because you haven't been around boats long enuff :-)!

Blow-back through the breather can certainly indicate interior damage. Were you aboard when the engine blew? What sort of noises did it make? Who did the diagnosis for you? What is that person's pecuniary interest in the diagnosis? Do you know enuff about diesel engines to make a reasonable diagnosis yourself?

You talk of "blue water". Yet you talk of a Yammerer with common rail injection. Why would you accept unnecessary complexities if you are gonna leave the USA and scull around distant parts of the world all on your lonesome?

If I were you, I think I'd just bite the bullet: Have a new engine. But not a Yammerer, let alone a Volvo, because they and their parts are costly. I would go for a BETA because the BETA is actually a Kubota industrial engine with a few bags hung on to marinize it. Kubota industrials are in use all over the world, so parts are available everywhere, should you need them, and quite cheap compared with parts for other engines. Mechanics competent to work on a Kubota exist in every part of the world.

Your boat displaces 13 tons, so by my lights, a 50HP machine would be good. 4HP per ton as a rule of thumb. Depending on HOW you cruise and WHERE you cruise you might get away with 25 or 30 HP, but why would you do that, when the cost difference twixt 30 and 50HP really isn't all that significant?

BETA will supply adapter motor mounts that will enable you (or your mechanic) to drop a new BETA straight onto the existing engine bearers, so don't worry about that! Just order the right bits when you talk to the local BETA dealer. The tranny is a separate consideration from the engine, and the one you have will not have been damaged by whatever damaged your existing engine.

A brand new 50-horse BETA, professionally installed, may be expected to set you back about 10 grand. If I owned a Vancouver 42 and intended to go "blue water", that is most certainly what I would do!

Don't even THINK about going electric. Leave that to the experienced people who really know what they are doing with it!

All the best!

TrentePieds
Good advice By TrientPieds.

I would not go with Yanmar because of their installation and warranty policies. I am a DIYer and replaced my Perkins 4-108 myself with Betamarine's blessing. Yanmar requires a factory authorized dealer install, Yanmar inspection to certify warranty and ALL work done by Yanmar authorized dealer to keep warranty in place. As I understand it you can't even change your own oil. That may be great if you are staying near a Yanmar dealer and you are not a DIYer but for bluewater cruising that is a nightmare.

Volvo has a reputation for high parts prices and difficult parts availability.

Betamarine in contrast shares the base engine information with you and you can get parts worldwide. They will do custom engine brackets that make engine installation a breeze and will do other customization per your your needs/desires. After 18 years of ownership and about 4500 engine hours I have only done three repairs outside of scheduled maintenance. Replaced copper piping with hose, rebuilt sea water pump and replaced engine mounts.
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Old 05-11-2021, 10:08   #14
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

I hear of engines dying a lot in this forum and in other sources. Replacement and rebuild are the standard repairs. Uhtflogen had a catastrophic failure. What I don’t understand is why marine engines are so quick to go to end of life. There are millions of cars and trucks with over 100,000 miles still running. If I assume an average speed of 40 mph for 100,000 miles, the engine ran for 2500 hours and is still viable. Uhtflogen reported around 300-400 hours in 2 different cases in his boat. Wow! What is going wrong? Diesel truck and bus commercial motors are typically replaced around 200,000 miles, 5000 hours! Someone is getting screwed out of a lot of money in sailboat land. Any comments or justification? I’m not trying to hijack the thread.
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Old 05-11-2021, 10:28   #15
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Re: Need a new engine 42' offshore SV--thoughts?

Elco motor has a variety of electric motors. Prices and specs. I just bought a 4jh57cr.
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