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Old 16-04-2020, 12:18   #31
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

I’ve never seen a turbo motor that at idle the turbo was spinning at all, or if it was it was doing so very slowly.
They are driven by exhaust pressure of course, and there is very little pressure at idle.
Anyone who has “washed” a turbo can tell you how fast it spins at idle.
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Old 16-04-2020, 12:19   #32
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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I've always heard this, and done this, but is it necessary? It can make a little mess.................
Ditto what others have said...............No!!......since the oil filter pressurizes from the oil pump quickly after starting the engine. Since my Yanmar oil filter is horizontally-mounted, filling with oil prior to screwing the filter on would make a "HUGE" mess, which would negate the reason for filling it prior to installation. But always apply a little motor oil to the gasket prior to replacing the filter to mitigate the risk the gasket sticking or potentially resulting in a large oil leak.

Just changed the engine oil and filter a few day ago....piece a cake, quick, no mess with a manual vacuum pump/container pump after heating the engine oil.
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Old 16-04-2020, 12:27   #33
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

What I do after draining oil and replacing the oil filter with a new one that I don’t pre-fill: I add some oil through the fill opening on top of the engine, then drain (I use a vacuum extractor) a bit more oil until I see the new oil appear. Then I fill oil to max. level, then crank the engine for a couple of seconds while pressing in the stop button, then top off the oil, then start and run to check oil pressure etc.

I must say that I never checked the oil pressure gauge while cranking without starting the engine... will do so next time
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Old 16-04-2020, 12:33   #34
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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............I add some oil through the fill opening on top of the engine, then drain (I use a vacuum extractor) a bit more oil until I see the new oil appear. Then I fill oil to max. level............

Excellent idea to ensure you have the cleanest oil in the reservoir after the oil change!!
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Old 16-04-2020, 12:35   #35
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

Ships engines have an electric oil pump which pushes the oil around the engine before it is turned over. I did have an air start Deutz on my Dutch barge which had a hand pump to pressurise the system before actually starting the engine.
It is good practice to pressurize before starting and by inference if you cannot do that, fill the oil filers as much as you can and then turn the engine over with the starter motor and with the stop actuated until you get some oil pressure and then start.
The ideal is not always possible so we need to compromise where-ever we can.
If I was starting from scratch I would put an electric pump before the filters so that I could pressurise the system first. Not easy to do as an after thought though. Just be careful when starting after a filter change is the key to long engine life.
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Old 16-04-2020, 12:39   #36
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Originally Posted by Niall leslie View Post
it is good practice to:

- Run the engine hot before an oil/filter(s) change.
-
Niall.
I've always wondered about this. Since my motor was good and hot when I shut it down last week, all the oil that is going to drain has drained by now.
I just drain the oil out and let the sump drip for a couple of days to get virtually all of it out.
If I restart first then I have 1 more cold start on relatively dirty oil and can't really get it loaded up at the dock. Seems counter intuitive.
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Old 16-04-2020, 13:09   #37
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

I've never done it. Don't rev high until the oil gets in the system. Most filters I've had are horizontal anyway.
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Old 16-04-2020, 15:16   #38
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

Just put extra oil into the engine to cover the volume of the filter. Do not rev up the engine until there is full oil pressure.
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Old 16-04-2020, 15:41   #39
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

I don't belive that filling the oil filter is needed, Whatr can be done tough is to crank the engine while stopping the fuel flow for a few seconds. This will fill the filter and insure that the oil pressure is good at startup.
But I find it convenient to fill as much as possible the fuel filter when it is installed. That simplify greatly the purge of fuel lines and restarting the enfine after a fuel filter replacement.
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Old 16-04-2020, 15:54   #40
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
...If your new oil has debris in it you're buying the wrong oil.

Maybe Cat's recommendation is the reason Cat quit selling large truck engines.
The apocryphal story is that the most likely bit of contamination is a part of the foil seal that you didn't remove 100% of (because it's just glued on there too well) when opening the brand new jug of nice, clean oil. You start pouring, that little flap of foil comes off, goes down the center hole of your filter, gets pumped into the engine right after startup, and blocks some small oil channel somewhere...

Whether it's ever happened
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Old 16-04-2020, 16:10   #41
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Originally Posted by mikecambrai View Post
Ships engines have an electric oil pump which pushes the oil around the engine before it is turned over. I did have an air start Deutz on my Dutch barge which had a hand pump to pressurise the system before actually starting the engine.
It is good practice to pressurize before starting and by inference if you cannot do that, fill the oil filers as much as you can and then turn the engine over with the starter motor and with the stop actuated until you get some oil pressure and then start.
The ideal is not always possible so we need to compromise where-ever we can.
If I was starting from scratch I would put an electric pump before the filters so that I could pressurise the system first. Not easy to do as an after thought though. Just be careful when starting after a filter change is the key to long engine life.
Those are pre-oilers, many old big WWII aircraft engines had them, reason was you could have a huge ole radial engine with I don’t know maybe 13 cylinders, but there is only one rod bearing as all the rods connect together so the bearing load is so high it must have a pressurized oil film to ride on from the beginning.

Many if not most modern ore-oilers are just an accumulator with a piston inside of a cylinder and a air pre-charge just like the accumulator in your water system, they are connected through a restricted orifice to the oil system, a solenoid is opened before starting and the quart or so of pressurized oil is sent into the engine just before starting, after the engine is running the accumulator is recharged through the restricted orifice and one way valve. The restricted orifice is there so the accumulator is recharged slowly so it doesn’t rob oil pressure from the engine.

They are really a simple thing and very easy to install, they just get plumed into an oil galley just like an oil pressure sender is, and there is almost always unused taps into the oil galley on an engine, just remove the plug and plumb in the accumulator, run a wire to a switch and your done.

Just remember to fire the pre-Oiler just before you change the oil so that it’s dirty oil is drained also.

They were very popular in the early 80’s along with high bypass policy filters and Amsoil, the thought was that if I kept the oil extremely well filtered and always started an engine that already had oil pressure, it would last many times longer than just a regular engine.

Turned out that it didn’t make engines last as long as was first thought, and then also modern engines in automobiles are so darn good now, they outlast the car. Remember we used to see cars on the road that smoked cause they were burning oil, you don’t see that anymore.

Never seen this one, know nothing about it, but here is a pre-luber kit http://www.engineprelube.com/prelubekit.html
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Old 16-04-2020, 16:14   #42
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Originally Posted by bcboomer View Post
I've always wondered about this. Since my motor was good and hot when I shut it down last week, all the oil that is going to drain has drained by now.
I just drain the oil out and let the sump drip for a couple of days to get virtually all of it out.
If I restart first then I have 1 more cold start on relatively dirty oil and can't really get it loaded up at the dock. Seems counter intuitive.
Your oil is loaded with soot, that is why it’s black, that soot is very fine but will settle out, and even if you drain the oil the soot that has settled out will sit on the bottom of the pan and be left behind.

If you run the engine until the oil is at least warm, that soot is shaken up into suspension and as long as the oil is either drained without a long delay or pumped out, the soot stays in suspension and goes out with the oil.

Think of shaking up oil and vinegar salad dressing, similar thing.
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Old 16-04-2020, 16:31   #43
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

In my mind, the other reason to change oil on a warm engine is that it's still got a bit more film on the bearings, and the new oil gets warmed slightly as it gets poured in, so it flows better. Both of which contribute to less of a dry start when you fire it up after the change.
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Old 16-04-2020, 18:44   #44
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Old 17-04-2020, 05:15   #45
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Re: Must Oil Filter Be Filled After Oil Change?

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Originally Posted by bcboomer View Post
I've always wondered about this. Since my motor was good and hot when I shut it down last week, all the oil that is going to drain has drained by now.
I just drain the oil out and let the sump drip for a couple of days to get virtually all of it out.
If I restart first then I have 1 more cold start on relatively dirty oil and can't really get it loaded up at the dock. Seems counter intuitive.
The main goal in oil changes isn't so much replacing every last drop of oil but getting the crud in the oil out...which is easiest when it's mixed into the oil.

Even if you leave it sit overnight draining, the thick crud on the bottom of the oil pan is unlikely to drain out if everything was cold and settled when you started. But once you warm up and circulate the oil, more of that crud will melt and get mixed into the oil where it can be drained.

Side effect of warming the engine up is all the parts have a layer of oil, so the 5-10 seconds to get oil pressure up won't cause any significant harm.

Now if the engine has been sitting for months (say winter storage) and you do an oil change without startup, that film of oil may be largely gone and the 5-10 seconds may cause excessive wear...though even then it's unlikely to cause the engine to fail.
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