Is a fuel primer bulb legit?

[rbk]

If I had been following this thread I would have suggested you install a solid state fuel pump instead. A little more in price and install, not much really though. Can be used for priming like the bulb but can also do double duty should your lift pump ever fail.

[Wotname]

Curious - what certification is needed for electronic fuel pump to be approved for diesel use below decks (in USA)?

[rbk]

I would think UL would apply.

[sck5]

Electric fuel pumps work but they are expensive. Fortunately there is a much better solution - Racor makes fuel filters with a decent manual pump built right into them. Best improvement to my fuel system I ever made. Filter changes became a snap.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Do NOT keep the bulb, they get soft, burst and none are rated for below deck use. Only use fuel line approved for below deck use, don’t use fuel bulbs or automotive fuel hose.

I have keel tanks with deep pickup lines. I had at times, issues with fuel stravation. So I got a Walbro FRA-1 inline fuel pump, which provides 4 PSI of "extra lift", if I recall correctly. It solved my probllems with fuel and I only need to run it with half full tanks.

Just another data point. I have used a fuel bulb prime only when running off a lashed down jerrycan when I replaced all of the fuel system.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by sck5

Electric fuel pumps work but they are expensive. Fortunately there is a much better solution - Racor makes fuel filters with a decent manual pump built right into them. Best improvement to my fuel system I ever made. Filter changes became a snap.

Solid state, UL approved $70 cnd ($45usd).

[dcruz99801]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

... last year I installed an electric pump as the factory one IP installed must have failed sometime in the past, it was installed, just didn’t work, but the electric is allowed and will keep you going should the engine driven one fail, they often fail of course by dumping fuel into the oil, so if it fails like that you will have to bypass it, and having an electric already installed, you just keep on going.
Tough to do with a primer bulb

I ran my newly installed and <new to me> Perkins 4.108 dry coming out of the yard w/ fuel shut off, and was surprised at the number of points the mechanic had to bleed. We used the starter to pressurize the system -- he didn't want to bother with the bulb -- but I decided to buy an electric pump. Question: how would you bypass a failed engine pump that was dumping fuel into the engine oil? Stop, drift and remove it? Pre-rig bypass valves/hose? Not common enough to bother?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I have keel tanks with deep pickup lines. I had at times, issues with fuel stravation. So I got a Walbro FRA-1 inline fuel pump, which provides 4 PSI of "extra lift", if I recall correctly. It solved my probllems with fuel and I only need to run it with half full tanks.

Just another data point. I have used a fuel bulb prime only when running off a lashed down jerrycan when I replaced all of the fuel system.

I had trouble with my generator getting fuel, it has an electric mounted on it, but it’s three ft of so above the top of the tank and maybe 15’ of hose and a filter, so I added another electric just after the filter and now it’s fine.
The issue I have with a bulb is that they aren’t approved for below deck use, but really the biggest issue is that they just aren’t needed. They don’t do anything an electric can’t do better, and as rbk pointed out in the event of a mechanical pump failure they can keep you going.
Mechanical pumps often fail by the diaphragm tearing dumping fuel into the engine so you would need to bypass it.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by dcruz99801

I ran my newly installed and <new to me> Perkins 4.108 dry coming out of the yard w/ fuel shut off, and was surprised at the number of points the mechanic had to bleed. We used the starter to pressurize the system -- he didn't want to bother with the bulb -- but I decided to buy an electric pump. Question: how would you bypass a failed engine pump that was dumping fuel into the engine oil? Stop, drift and remove it? Pre-rig bypass valves/hose? Not common enough to bother?

I have a brass fitting that I could connect the two hose to. On my pump both hoses have the fitting made to the hoses, so I don’t want to have to cut them off, but both hoses are female flare fittings. Any home supply store will have a double ended male flare fitting. Get one and loosely zip tie it to the hose so you don’t have to go looking for it.

My boat when I bought it had an electric pump from the factory, but it didn’t work. I did without one for a few years, only got around to replacing it last year and have yet to use it.
I have a dual Racor filter and even filling that dual Racor wasn’t that bad using the lever on the fuel pump, bu then I was used to Filing dual Cav filters on farm tractors with the lever so I was used to it.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by stormalong

I have one in my fuel system also and have read many warnings not to have one.

A couple of points:

There are diesel rated primer bulbs. Get one and replace the gasoline version. Will it mater? Probably not.

Place the primer bulb higher than the fuel tank and make it the highest point in the fuel system. Why, you ask? Because the fuel tank is vented siphoning will not happen. If the primer bulb does fail only the fuel in the primer bulb will leak out. Although diesel fuel in the engine space and the bilge is undesirable it is not dangerous and a few ounces is manageable.

I was just about to comment on keeping the primer bulb above the tank level to prevent siphoning.... I second the motion here. On the twin engine I run, there are two gasoline bulbs in the line for twelve years and still going strong. Great thinking "stormalong"... Roger

[Dsanduril]

And there's even sort of the standard for that. The USCG, in the regulations discussed above, allows the use of "B" hoses (not under deck rated) where the fuel spill from a failed hose would be less than 5 ounces in two-and-a-half minutes. I don't know of any "B" rated bulbs, but at least there's some precedent, and remember, that's for gasoline.

[Rotten Ricky]

I have used priming bulb for my boats for over 40 years - and they never failed me with either gas or diesel. No splits, no leaks. Love inexpensive, low tech solutions - always ready and reliable even when there is no power to drive an electric pump. You can hear the flow and feel the hardness of the bulb when you are building up pressure in the system - or not! You can't do this so easily with any other pump. I use mine in conjunction with a vacuum gauge for the same reason. After months of frustration, and self-blame, it helped me find a leak in the factory-made fitting in my tank when I installed my new diesel engine.
Incidentally you do not need to replace an expensive Racor filter without reason, and that reason is not because of time - it is only if it is plugged and will not allow fuel through. If there is no buildup of vacuum between engine and filter, you do not need to change it! The inexpensive vacuum gauge will confirm this. You can easily test the vacuum gauge by momentarily turning off the valve at the tank while the engine is running - just watch that gauge climb! At a glance, you know that your filter is in good shape for another season. And there is no mess and hassle if you do not have to change it.
As an aside, I loved the honesty of the tough and reliable Cummins diesel engine in my truck, which had a kind of vacuum gauge on the air filter, and instructions that said something like "Do not change this filter until the gauge indicates that it is required". Should be the same with all filters, or you are just wasting your money and resources.
Ultimately it is up to YOU to ensure your engine and vessel is ship shape but I will always have a primer bulb and vacuum gauge in my boat. My surveyors agreed at what a sensible arrangement. It is a small and inexpensive saviour when things go wrong. And, unfortunately, they will!
Cheers, RR.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by dcruz99801

I ran my newly installed and <new to me> Perkins 4.108 dry coming out of the yard w/ fuel shut off, and was surprised at the number of points the mechanic had to bleed. We used the starter to pressurize the system -- he didn't want to bother with the bulb -- but I decided to buy an electric pump. Question: how would you bypass a failed engine pump that was dumping fuel into the engine oil? Stop, drift and remove it? Pre-rig bypass valves/hose? Not common enough to bother?

You’d have to remove the lift pump from the equation and plumb directly to the filter for your 4108. Very few lift pumps fail to that extent on 4108’s, it does happen but if it’s gotten to that point with maintenance there’s a good chance something else will fail first. Lift pump for 4108 is cheap enough to keep another on-board, takes longer to bleed the engine than swap out the lift pump, but to be able to flick a switch and have an electric backup could save your butt enough to get somewhere safe.

[col50]

Originally Posted by Gary Mc

Yep have been using one for about 12 years, no issues and would not be without it.
Tried the manual lever thingy on my Yanmar and could not get it to work. The bulb works great!

The reason it won't work is that the lever that actuates the pump is on the high point of the cam lobe inside the engine. Crank your engine about one revolution and it will work.

[sveinung]

Ours started letting air into the diesel lines around the bulb to hose fittings so came off, back to 200 pumps on the cam operated pump when we need to bleed air again but the leaks were giving us issues.