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Old 22-10-2016, 14:12   #1
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Inner engine corrosion protection.

I have a 1gm10 Yanmar which is raw water cooled. While removing the mixing elbow for inspection a large portion of the cylinder head flange departed with the mixing elbow due to corrosion. Further inspection showed severe corrosion internally of the water passages. I was able to puncture the passage with my awl. This is the area where the zinc button resides to prevent corrosion. Off with the head! I have a new head and am ready to install it but was curious to whether it was possible to successfully treat the cooling passages with some sort of corrosion resistant paint. Or should I just accept the fact that this is something that will have to be done again sometime in the future. It appears there are no fresh water cooling options for this application.
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Old 22-10-2016, 14:47   #2
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Sounds to me like at some time in its life the engine's internal anodes were nt serviced, possibly for long periods. I've never heard of using coatings on those passages, likely because they are not usually required. Raw water cooled engines have been around a long time, and if properly maintained, don't suffer from internal corrosion all that much. A much more common failing is buildup of mineral deposits blocking flow or impeding heat transfer.

So, put on your new head, install the recommended anodes and check them now and then, replace when around half consumed. They are cheap and on some engines, easy to replace... your engine may vary!

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Old 22-10-2016, 15:03   #3
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Not a Yammer but same issue with corrosion.

Hmmm, Jim, I just finished my 4-108m. I did not see anything consistent with an anode device, any idea where I should have found said device.

FWIW, the motor exterior was incredibly rough with obvious corrosion. I hand cleaned each part, sanding and scotch brighting each questionable part and service for inspection.

Where should these devices go on a motor for best protection of any motor.

Trying to learn from the OPs findings, and Jim, or others who are knowledgable

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Old 22-10-2016, 15:06   #4
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

The anodes on a 4-108 will be in the seawater circuit. They just look like pipe plugs.

Corrosion in the freshwater side is controlled by the coolant additives, meaning it's important to change the coolant occasionally.


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Old 22-10-2016, 15:40   #5
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Sail monkey, thank you. So it's a " threaded device" that threads in?. Pipe thread

The freshwater side had zero coolant, straight water. when I took her apart. After test stand motor runs and tweeting, I'll drain and refill with coolant. " hopefully this week"

I did notice awfully crude castings inside the block, and other cast parts from Perkins. Possiby mis-judged the courseness as casting when in fact it was corrosion.

Any thoughts.

this is my first diesel disassembly and assembly. I pray I got it right, liked to kill me with weeks and weeks of hand cleaning and polishing.


Thank you for helping .

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Old 22-10-2016, 15:51   #6
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

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Originally Posted by Dirk Williams View Post
Sail monkey, thank you. So it's a " threaded device" that threads in?. Pipe thread

The freshwater side had zero coolant, straight water. when I took her apart. After test stand motor runs and tweeting, I'll drain and refill with coolant. " hopefully this week"

I did notice awfully crude castings inside the block, and other cast parts from Perkins. Possiby mis-judged the courseness as casting when in fact it was corrosion.

Any thoughts.

this is my first diesel disassembly and assembly. I pray I got it right, liked to kill me with weeks and weeks of hand cleaning and polishing.


Thank you for helping .

Dirk

It's not a "device" per-se, just a plug that's threaded internally. However it's possible that you engine has no anodes at all. Do you have a bowman heat exchanger?


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Old 22-10-2016, 15:56   #7
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Ref the raw water cooled engine, yes there are possible coatings that could be done during manufacture and other metals that could have been used that are more corrosion resistant, but in truth it's a matter of money, raw water cooling is the least expensive and spending a bunch of money making it more corrosion resistant is apparently not sought after by the average buyer or it would have been offered.
In truth in my opinion it's likely that your new cylinder head will likely out live the rest of the engine so I doubt you will be doing it again.
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Old 22-10-2016, 16:01   #8
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Quote:
Hmmm, Jim, I just finished my 4-108m. I did not see anything consistent with an anode device, any idea where I should have found said device.
dirk, I have no personal experience with the 4-108, but lots of others on CF do. I will leave it to them to describe the location.

On the raw water cooled BMW D-35 we used to own, there was one anode in the block and one in the exhaust manifold cooling passage. They were brass hex-head plugs, seen from the outside, and had pencil anodes that screwed into a threaded female hole on t he inside. In our usage (full time cruising) they lasted 6-12 months.

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Old 22-10-2016, 16:26   #9
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

Thank you gentleman. I do recall seeing the plugs. , one in the exhaust and one forward left on the block. I didn't pull either, I assumed they were drain ports.

yes I do have a bowman oil cooler, mounted front top center. my motor is actually a real deal 4-107m. Very small differences.

I didn't discover the motor being a 4-107m, until after I order all replacement parts.
A couple minor mods were made to the water pump housing some finite file work, and no worries.

Had to notch a couple other tight fitting parts to complete replacement.

Sadly I've got several parts I purchased new that didn't fit. I'll donate them to another sailor with a 4-108.

Fuel and oil filters,and I had purchased a few extra fan belts, which are short, I've got a very large alternator , hence longer belts.


Dirk
Thanks again for helping me. I'm getting their slowly but surely.
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Old 22-10-2016, 22:41   #10
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

The 3GM30, same series as the 1GM10 had three anodes, two on the side of the engine block which protruded into the spaces between the cylinder walls and one on the back of the block.


Mine was about 27 years old when I removed it from the boat to install a bigger engine and there was no corrosion anywhere that I could see in any of the raw water cooling passages.


You do need to give them a new set of anodes and I found it best to replace them annually even if they were not all gone as it gives you some slack time if you forget for a while.


The plugs are reusable as the zinc anode screws onto a SS stud. I bought round zinc bar and cut it up, drilled and threaded it myself to make anodes as the Yanmar spares were fairly expensive.
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Old 23-10-2016, 08:39   #11
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

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Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish View Post
...was curious to whether it was possible to successfully treat the cooling passages with some sort of corrosion resistant paint. Or should I just accept the fact that this is something that will have to be done again sometime in the future. It appears there are no fresh water cooling options for this application.
I'm installing a T fitting in my raw water intake side just past the sea cock. This will allow me to easily flush it with Salt-Away on a regular basis. All of my boats have Volvo MD6A engines which are raw water cooled. With the T fitting I don't have to remove the hose every time I want to flush the system.
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Old 23-10-2016, 11:23   #12
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

This more of a question than an answer, but if there is a recirculating fresh water (non-salt) system, is not antifreeze a usual recommended additive (almost a component) of the system, and does not most (?) antifreeze include a corrosion preventative? Clearly this is not true if raw water (fresh or salt is used). Frankly, I ask the question because the terms "raw water side" and "seawater circuit" made me think there were two distinct cooling systems, something I had not personally encountered.
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Old 23-10-2016, 11:46   #13
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

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This more of a question than an answer, but if there is a recirculating fresh water (non-salt) system, is not antifreeze a usual recommended additive (almost a component) of the system, and does not most (?) antifreeze include a corrosion preventative? Clearly this is not true if raw water (fresh or salt is used). Frankly, I ask the question because the terms "raw water side" and "seawater circuit" made me think there were two distinct cooling systems, something I had not personally encountered.
There are two often distinct items you are talking about. One is anti-freeze and one is coolant. Coolant is used in fresh water systems to keep the engine from overheating. It does often have properties that reduce the likelihood of freezing.

The second is anti-freeze. It can have cooling properties but it is designed to keep fluids from freezing. West Marine, and others, sells anti-freeze as well as coolant but their big seller is the pink or purple anti-freeze. It is designed to prevent the engine and/or water tanks and hose from freezing.

One model of their anti-freeze has anti-corrosion properties and is suitable for water systems and/or engines. The other model is only suitable for water systems because it only has anti-freeze properties and has NO corrosion protection. Certainly, in an emergency you could use it to protect your engine since it is better than plain water, but it is not designed to protect engines.

Be sure you check what you are buying and make sure you have the right stuff for the application you need.
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Old 23-10-2016, 12:06   #14
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

It is possible that "stray currents" are causing abnormal corrosion of raw water cooled engines. Consult an expert.
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Old 23-10-2016, 12:06   #15
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Re: Inner engine corrosion protection.

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Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
There are two often distinct items you are talking about. One is anti-freeze and one is coolant. Coolant is used in fresh water systems to keep the engine from overheating. It does often have properties that reduce the likelihood of freezing.

The second is anti-freeze. It can have cooling properties but it is designed to keep fluids from freezing. West Marine, and others, sells anti-freeze as well as coolant but their big seller is the pink or purple anti-freeze. It is designed to prevent the engine and/or water tanks and hose from freezing.

One model of their anti-freeze has anti-corrosion properties and is suitable for water systems and/or engines. The other model is only suitable for water systems because it only has anti-freeze properties and has NO corrosion protection. Certainly, in an emergency you could use it to protect your engine since it is better than plain water, but it is not designed to protect engines.

Be sure you check what you are buying and make sure you have the right stuff for the application you need.
Thanks for the reply, but I guess I did not phrase my question well. I am fairly familiar with antifreeze (of varying types and qualities) and anticorrosion products/devices too, including those within cooling systems. What seemed to be implied (or perhaps that which I inferred) was the existence and use of engines that have both a raw water and a recirculating engine cooling system. I am definitely not referring to water systems that supply water for consumption or any other non-engine purpose, be it from a tank, a lake, or the sea. I also do not see much use for antifreeze in circumstances when it will be pumped back to the source as a contaminant after a single trip through the engine (no, neither I am not talking winter and the possibility of protection against incomplete drainage).
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