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Old 02-05-2021, 14:59   #31
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by Volkeno View Post
I’m sure those of you with nuclear sailboats have big budgets for hot water, but how many islands turn you away?
I’ve never had hot water on any of my boats and sometimes my hands get a little numb in winter. I mostly shower in marina’s and who knows what they heat with. I have an electric motor on the dinghy I use to get there
In my latitudes your hands would fall off, not just get numb. And there are sometimes hundreds of miles between marinas.

I don't have nuclear on board, but one can dream. A thermionic reactor (like on satellites and space probes) would be brilliant on a cruising sailboat.
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Old 02-05-2021, 15:21   #32
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by Volkeno View Post
Iím sure those of you with nuclear sailboats have big budgets for hot water, but how many islands turn you away?
Iíve never had hot water on any of my boats and sometimes my hands get a little numb in winter. I mostly shower in marinaís and who knows what they heat with. I have an electric motor on the dinghy I use to get there
No hot water shower onboard? Iíll bet good money that you are a single-hander. Male.
I am also a single-hander. Male.

I hope my single handing days are limited, so I have a nice, interior, private shower with unlimited hot water (sorry Dockhead - I use propane&#128513.

I also have installed a bidet wand attachment to my electric head. I seem to do ok with repeat female crew.

We donít have to heat hot water rubbing two pine cones together.
(Sorry Sean - I am really eager to get back to the States and pick up my PyPilot. I expect it will be even better than promised).
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Old 02-05-2021, 16:48   #33
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

It would seem that if you have an electric boat you have enough batteries and a way to charge them that you can run the water heater off the inverter long enough to get at least warm water. I have 480ah of batteries and 640w of solar and can run the hw heater for the 20-30 mnutes it takes to make enough water for 2 showers.

And if not i run the Honda to do it.
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Old 02-05-2021, 19:04   #34
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

Old fashion way was to hang a black water prof bag in the sun, heat water on stove or cold shower.
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:00   #35
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Just curious - those who have switched their engines from diesel to electric, is there another option for heating your water?

I suppose if you still have a marine diesel generator, you could heat the water though that, although it wouldn't do the job as well. You could also use your battery power to heat the water too, but that would drain your batteries pretty quick. So I'm wondering, are there other solutions out there?

No solution fits all.
Not in life, nor boats or women.

I want to be both green and independent, creature comfort yet dependable low tech at least as backup.

I'm keeping the diesel engine for now, the cost of going electric is too high for the little use.
But I think my mindset is quite the same.

All electric otherwise: 1500w solar / 8kwh lithium / 5kw inverter / induction hub etc.

Heating is the biggest energy consumer!
I opted for cruising cold climates only in summer, 60mm closed cell insulation agains both heat and cold, and most importantly a smaller boat: 34".

Showers

The biggest challenge shifting to cruising most/full time is actually shifting our mindset.
The woman / shower situation puts us at the test.

I'm opting for a pump up shower - warming the water either in the sun and/or in a normal electrical kettle for backup.

Main points:
- Limits and meters use of both water and electricity.
- Allows fiancťe to 'always' have nice warn shower.
- Shower head with on demand button further limits the waste.
- Always chosen water temperature, so no waste.
- Water can even be heated on my backup Origo stove if we have too little power.

Now, my choices of solutions (and woman) may not be your jam.
But there are still lessons to be learnt if you go for a more traditional pressurised shower like on land:
- Limit water use through crew understanding the resources used (SOC readout is a good example)
- Move water heater close to place of consumption to limit un-used water
- Use a thermostatic mixer, to limit un-used water
- Install a water saving shower head with on demand button
- Shower when the room temperature is the highest, so you are using water to wash and not to stay warm.

Combine with already mentioned:
- Use solar / wind over-run to heat water
- Time showering with energy availability


Pump up shower HW

DuckWorks used to offer a nice solution, but they don't seem to have it anymore.
At least they still offer Shower Head and Valve Handle at USD5 each.
Deck shower replacement handles are another source more readily availiable most places.

You could make a DIY solution with a on demand handle attache to a pump up sprayer from a gardening store.

Reliance actually offers a turn-key solution for a meager USD43: FLOW PRO PORTABLE SHOWER.

I suggest getting 2, so there is a backup and/or dedicated salt water rinse option, if you really have to save on water.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:11   #36
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
What is the point of the electric boat if you burn diesel fuel? This is completely backward way of thinking shows lack of innovation, and essentially misunderstanding of use of energy. Your suggestion to use fuel doesn't pay for the true cost of the fuel, otherwise it would not be affordable compared to alternatives. Suggesting using fuel is essentially suggesting it is ok to not pay the price, which is actually stealing as you deprive others from the world you inherited.



1) evaccuated solar tube. This makes super solar oven as well as can boil water in freezing. With one of these rigged up, it is smaller than a 30 watt solar panel but could give you gallons of hot water in little time most of the time for shower etc. This is like steroids version of solar shower which works even on partial overcast/windy/cold weather.



2) wood stove. This is how you can have space heating and water heat in the winter or overcast/raining. It takes about 10 pinecones to make a hot shower.


3) wind turbine. I have powered a small electric space heater (thru inverter) from a wind turbine in 25knot winds. With backpacking heat pumps available at 250-600 watts and huge battery capacities, this could be even more efficient than ever.


4) electric water heater. This doesn't use too much power if you ensure it is in a vacuum insulated container. A huge waste of hot waters is heating the water hotter than it needs to be and/or not using immediately after. The specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules per kilogram per degree Celsius, so if you need to heat the water 25C and have 2kg (enough for shower) then a 60 watt solar panel can do this in 1 hour. It's not a lot of power.


5) shower loop. This recirculates the water through a filter saving water as well as the energy to heat it. This is really the ultimate option, but I am still investigating using multiple vortex filters to separate oil as well as debris.. so lets hear from others as this option I have not managed to construct yet.





burning fuel is cheating because it's taking advantage of the world's most vulnerable people, the same people who contribute to the problem the least. It's like stealing from a child, or pushing an elderly person out of the way just because you don't want to change and do things a different way. well the choice wont be forever, and the less people who do the right thing now, the worst the consequences in the future for everyone, and in the future governments may just close down cruising (like saudi arabia) if most of the people doing it are part of the problem there will be no choice.
Isn't burning wood consuming a fuel?
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Old 03-05-2021, 18:09   #37
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by Junk Viking View Post

Reliance actually offers a turn-key solution for a meager USD43: FLOW PRO PORTABLE SHOWER.
I see the Reliance unit claims 2 minutes from 20 pumps. This could be a good way to monitor your water usage:
10 pumps, wet and lather.
Water flow stops.
Wash.
10 pumps: rinse off

Adjust number of pumps to suit your situation and water availability
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:37   #38
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

Buy 4 x AAA monocells to heast all winter.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:03   #39
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
What is the point of the electric boat if you burn diesel fuel? This is completely backward way of thinking shows lack of innovation, and essentially misunderstanding of use of energy. Your suggestion to use fuel doesn't pay for the true cost of the fuel, otherwise it would not be affordable compared to alternatives. Suggesting using fuel is essentially suggesting it is ok to not pay the price, which is actually stealing as you deprive others from the world you inherited.



1) evaccuated solar tube. This makes super solar oven as well as can boil water in freezing. With one of these rigged up, it is smaller than a 30 watt solar panel but could give you gallons of hot water in little time most of the time for shower etc. This is like steroids version of solar shower which works even on partial overcast/windy/cold weather.



2) wood stove. This is how you can have space heating and water heat in the winter or overcast/raining. It takes about 10 pinecones to make a hot shower.


3) wind turbine. I have powered a small electric space heater (thru inverter) from a wind turbine in 25knot winds. With backpacking heat pumps available at 250-600 watts and huge battery capacities, this could be even more efficient than ever.


4) electric water heater. This doesn't use too much power if you ensure it is in a vacuum insulated container. A huge waste of hot waters is heating the water hotter than it needs to be and/or not using immediately after. The specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules per kilogram per degree Celsius, so if you need to heat the water 25C and have 2kg (enough for shower) then a 60 watt solar panel can do this in 1 hour. It's not a lot of power.


5) shower loop. This recirculates the water through a filter saving water as well as the energy to heat it. This is really the ultimate option, but I am still investigating using multiple vortex filters to separate oil as well as debris.. so lets hear from others as this option I have not managed to construct yet.





burning fuel is cheating because it's taking advantage of the world's most vulnerable people, the same people who contribute to the problem the least. It's like stealing from a child, or pushing an elderly person out of the way just because you don't want to change and do things a different way. well the choice wont be forever, and the less people who do the right thing now, the worst the consequences in the future for everyone, and in the future governments may just close down cruising (like saudi arabia) if most of the people doing it are part of the problem there will be no choice.
Hubris much?

Burning a pint of diesel to take a hot shower is several orders of magnitude different from burning a thousand a week to move a power yacht.

And you totally neglected the energy, and carbon footprint of your solar cell factory.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:29   #40
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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. . . (sorry Dockhead - I use propane&#128513.. . . .

Be safe!


I think propane can be made REASONABLY safe if you follow the ABYC standards, which means sealed, externally vented burner, completely separate gas feed, gas leak detectors, etc. etc.


If you use propane and DON'T follow these standards, then it's your life, but please don't anchor near me!!
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:43   #41
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
. . .

4) electric water heater. This doesn't use too much power if you ensure it is in a vacuum insulated container. A huge waste of hot waters is heating the water hotter than it needs to be and/or not using immediately after. The specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules per kilogram per degree Celsius, so if you need to heat the water 25C and have 2kg (enough for shower) then a 60 watt solar panel can do this in 1 hour. It's not a lot of power.. . .

2 liters of water for a shower? That's radical; I'm not sure it's even doable. In Greenland, I washed in the icy sea and used 2 liters of fresh water just for the final rinse every day, and I was intensely conserving water. A pretty modest shower on boat is more like 10 liters, which is really modest compared to a land shower of 40 or 50 liters, which on land is considered modest. So that's at least 5, not two hours from a 60 watt solar panel. Two such showers would require 5 hours from 120 watts of solar. It's possibly doable, but that's quite a bit of power.


Whereas you only need 0.026 liters, or 26ml of liquid fuel, to heat up 10 liters by 25C, assuming 100% efficiency. Even at only 80% efficiency, that's only 33ml. The carbon footprint of that is microscopic even if you burn fossil fuel; or just use B100 fuel for a smaller carbon footprint than doing it with solar.



Fanaticism about this doesn't do the planet any good -- we need practical, doable, reasonable compromises to actually move forward.
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:16   #42
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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+1
Very well put. Let's see, what will I have to leave behind in order to have a dedicated "pine cone locker"...

Your diesel fuel tank IS your pine cone locker. Funny how the smart guys don't look so smart when trying to belittle the efforts of those who have things figured out
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:43   #43
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

Circulate the hot water from your generator.
Either that or heat it up at the dock.
Electric motors must be for day sailors.
I have 1500 watt solar, 22 golf cart batteries, and when I am cruising, 5000-6000 miles a year, I still have to run the generator every week.
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:49   #44
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

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22 golf cart batteries

How do you stay afloat or move around in your boat? LOL LFP is less than half the weight, almost double the capacity (in the same capacity battery, meaning you'd save half the space for the same capacity), and a fraction of the charge time, meaning fuel savings for your generator
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:55   #45
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Re: How do you heat your water with an electric engine?

Coming in late to this party/thread that appears to have totally digressed from the OPs original question.
My question would be how/when will you use your boat? I see you are located in the Chesapeake and your heating approaches would be different than someone in higher lats. If you are sailing in the summer (in the Ches.) the bay temp can hit mid 80sF and this will also be the temp of the water in your tanks. It can be quite refreshing to take a cooler/tank temp shower. If you do like really hot showers a solar shower works well and will get too hot at times. Later or earlier in the season, the solar shower can still work if you heat it mid day, then drop the bag in a cooler to keep it warm until you take a shower. These are low tech ideas.

Another good HW source would be a propane water heater as suggested by Thinwater early in the thread. These are inexpensive, take very little propane to run and can easily be set up for safe operation.

Editorial: Not really certain why people bust on Sean's ideas, when in fact he has sailed around the world w/no motor and has done many these ideas in his everyday life (not certain about the exact energy calcs). It may not be for everyone/doesn't fit their lifestyle, but he has his opinions from a pure environmentalist standpoint and people should respect them. Others put down their feisty opinions and are not as harshly criticized for them (re: nuclear power, propane fears, etc.), so I don't understand why there is a double standard.

I'm fairly certain I'll get blasted for stating my opinion, but I don't see how these digressions help the OP solve their problems and I thought this is what this forum conceptually was all about (helping one another). Maybe I signed up for the wrong reasons.
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