How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

[Peregrine1983]

Tell me about it. A clogged carb is what sent me down this ethanol research rabbit hole.

[roland stockham]

Funny but the first person to recommend ethanol as fuel was Henry ford, he designed the modern 'gas' engine to run on it. I believe it is also used as a performance booster in drag cars. It was the Koch Brother family that drove the change to using oil. Biofuel should be made from the stems and husks which currently go into animal foods and corn syrup so may have the side effect of reducing the mortality rate from adding corn syrup to the human diet. Also the major difference is that any biofuel is a closed carbon cycle not an open one so does not cumulatively add to CO2 levels. This scare stuff about damaging engines is pumped out by oil industry lobbiest scared that if we use things like biofuel and solar we will loose our dependence on big oil and they will no longer be able to control us by controlling the power supply
But then I am a conspiracy theorist

[tstano]

Signed it. No corn syrup in the tank.


All U Get

[Lepke]

Ethanol has less power than gas so any mixture has some effect on mileage. The more ethanol, the more the fuel wants to separate. Brazil has many vehicles running 100% ethanol and has severe smog problems in cities.
It's like many things the government shoves down our throats. Money makes it happen. If you watch congress, parties aside, the members vote to please their big donors.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Ethanol has less power than gas so any mixture has some effect on mileage. The more ethanol, the more the fuel wants to separate. Brazil has many vehicles running 100% ethanol and has severe smog problems in cities.
It's like many things the government shoves down our throats. Money makes it happen. If you watch congress, parties aside, the members vote to please their big donors.

Would be interesting to look at the record for government donors and see how much of it come from any form of 'green lobby' and how much come from big oil, I think you would find it is not ethanol that is being pushed. Remember this is what is powering the record storms, forest fires, droughts etc all of which have bee predicted by the climate change science, you need to wake up and see what the rest of the world is worrying about and why, there is a good reason why everyone else is working on this.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

I believe it is also used as a performance booster in drag cars.

We use E85 (85% Ethanol) in turbo rally cars, it adds a staggering 20% to max power at the wheels.

Needless to say we like it.

[Rough Magic]

And what wrong with the engine manufacturers? Why haven't they figured out how to deal with this? The car companies have. May be they just don't want to make a USA only model? Older engines are an issue, but new ones ought to be okay with these new fuels.

[44'cruisingcat]

[QUOTE=roland stockham;2462459

This scare stuff about damaging engines is pumped out by oil industry lobbiest ..

..

But then I am a conspiracy theorist[/QUOTE]

No, it's actually true. I had a ride on mowers fuel pump and lines wrecked by a jerrycan of e10 my wife bought.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Rough Magic

And what wrong with the engine manufacturers? Why haven't they figured out how to deal with this? The car companies have. May be they just don't want to make a USA only model? Older engines are an issue, but new ones ought to be okay with these new fuels.

Mercury Marine specifications are for a maximum of 10% ethanol on the new inboards. Knock sensors, oxygen sensors, multiport fuel injection, you name it.

[Scout 30]

Don't underestimate Boat US. I think they are a big part of why we can still get non-ethanol fuel at marinas. Congressmen like money but they like votes too. If mainstream journalists got behind this story we might have a chance to beat it. Getting behind repealing this mandate might also be a way for Democrats to win some votes but they have to think we care about this.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Ethanol has less power than gas so any mixture has some effect on mileage. The more ethanol, the more the fuel wants to separate. Brazil has many vehicles running 100% ethanol and has severe smog problems in cities.
It's like many things the government shoves down our throats. Money makes it happen. If you watch congress, parties aside, the members vote to please their big donors.

Lepke, in fact most of the cars in Brazil run on alcohol. Brazil has had an ethanol program for many decades and, for the last 15 years or so, virtually EVERY car made in Brazil is equipped with a flex engine (that runs on ethanol or gas or any mixture of the two). Ethanol burns much cleaner than gas (no particles). Every gas station has pumps with 100% ethanol and gas. Most people opt for ethanol as it's cheaper. The problem with pollution in large urban centers in Brazil has improved with the use of alcohol.

That said (and without getting into the political debate too much...), ethanol doesn't make sense in every country. In Brazil it makes sense, given the enormous amount of fertile land available and the climate (for sugarcane). Farmers here have no subsidies- it's market demand that sets the price they receive. I think when the state subsidizes farmers, like in the US, one has to do the math to see if it makes economic sense (it probably doesn't).

We don't seem to have the chronic engine problems you complain about in the US, despite the high alcohol content in our gas. Could it be that engine manufacturers there haven't adapted yet to the new fuels?

Also, flex engines have more HP burning ethanol- although the consumption in liters is higher. We calculate here that ethanol at the pump has to be 70% or less than the price of gas to be more economical. It always is.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

It's not waste corn that's used in the US. One of the major problems with ethanol is deforestation - clearing land to farm corn for ethanol.

Tearing out all the fences and doing away with pasture and livestock is a bit of personal problem for me. I make my living in an agricultural business, and I'd just assume see all subsidies done away with. The market would adjust, and corn would be too expensive to burn. I'm sure some economist will prove me wrong, but for now, that's my story.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

We use E85 (85% Ethanol) in turbo rally cars, it adds a staggering 20% to max power at the wheels.

Needless to say we like it.

Ethanol is not what adds the power. It's the boost from the turbo. Lots of boost=higher EGTs. Ethanol burns significantly cooler than 100% petroleum gasoline. You'd burn the exhaust valves out of the head without the cooling effects of the E85. Same concept as propane/water injection on a hopped up diesel. That said, turbo rally cars are something I'd really like to take for a test drive.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

No, it's actually true. I had a ride on mowers fuel pump and lines wrecked by a jerrycan of e10 my wife bought.

Really? You have not been able to buy anything at the pump in Canada that does not have some ethanol in it , mostly E10 or E85. Not aware it is causing a problem. My Jeep (US made) has a tank sicker for flex and has run on mix from new with no issues and I have certainly run Yamaha 4st outboards and various mowers on it without issue. Maybe they make different models to sell in the US?

[roland stockham]

One point, if you are changing fuels on an engine sometimes you do need to change the timing slightly. Simpler engines may need to have this done manually rarther than through software so it may be that the use uses different software settings