Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-11-2019, 13:53   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 759
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

I have quick swapped a Racor filter. I keep an athletic water bottle with a locking top filled with diesel, and squirt fuel into the filter case after changing the element, filling to the top and quickly put the top back on. Works very well.
keepondancin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 14:25   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,102
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass790 View Post
Thanks for posting Lepke,
Interested in the dimensions of your filters so i can relate them to ours. Our fuel consumption is way different at less than maybe a 1/4 of a US gallon per hr but if you give me a dimension I can work out a probable lifetime.
Yanmar says to replace their drastically overpriced final filter at 100 hr intervals
So far our 5 micron filter has done over 300 hrs but it is a much larger spin on for 1/2 the cost of a Yanmar filter. I modified the fuel system to my liking & to cut Yanmar out of the equation. Seems to be fine so far but happy to learn more.
We spend a lot more time sailing than motoring but often we anchor 1/2 hr from dive spots so its not worth sailing that is why engine tips are good.
thanks if you can help
I have old (about 1973) Racor 900 housings feeding a manifold. Rated at 90 gl/hr with a 2 micron element. I have a vacuum gauge on my fuel manifold that reads 0 in/hg when element is new and about 7 at 500 hours. Everything runs thru the manifold and each engine has a secondary filter of about 10 microns. The engine mounted filters really never get dirty, but catch a little water the primary misses and serve as a backup to the Racor if an element should come apart. I also treat my diesel every fuel up with Archoil AR6200. I never have fuel problems.
I use Baldwin filters and buy them by the case here: BF Web Express :: Order Baldwin Filters online - Best Prices, Free Shipping
https://www.racorstore.com/racor/turbine-series.html
or on eBay search for "900 turbine fuel filter housing" for a Chinese copy - about $65.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AR6200-compressed.pdf (1.61 MB, 17 views)
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 15:20   #18
Registered User
 
jhulmer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Biloxi, MS
Boat: 1978 Cabo Rico Tiburon 36
Posts: 553
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

I have dual tanks and made my own system to swap between them and prefilters. I like redundancy on mission critical systems. I used a 4 way (6 port) valve to handle the fuel returns but You could easily adapt this to a hot swap filter using the Moeller 3way valve. Valve feeds one or the other filter at a time and the output on the filters run to a "Y" then to the engine. I can't remember if the Racors have builtin check valves but an inline check valve would be required on the outputs. I change the filter and add fuel into the top of the filter before I close the top.




https://www.defender.com/product.jsp...263&id=2178741
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3782.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	420.1 KB
ID:	203090  
__________________
refit blog
jhulmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 15:31   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Panama, Central America
Boat: CT 49, 1989
Posts: 891
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
You can change it, but you canít bleed it.
Now if you donít drain the bowl etc, then maybe your engine will ďeatĒ what air there is, I think my old 4-JHE would as itís a self bleeding engine, many are, not all are.
So as long as there is enough fuel to keep it running it will pass the air onto the return fuel line.

But Iíve yet to need to switch filters when running, what are the odds that you need to switch filters and change out the old one without shutting down?
Yes that is exactly my understanding too. But as you say some engines can tolerate a slug of air, and just have a little cough and keep on going ok. I agree on how big the air bubble is and how air bubble tolerent your particular engine is.

Also I agree that you may or may not be able to fill the bowl completely enough with diesel before putting the top back on with as was suggested a squirt water bottle/ syringe/ a cup/oiler can, or something else you come up with. Again this depends on access and what you have etc.

I have often done this sort of thing. Often successfully, often after some messing around. Sometimes you have to try other methods to get that air out.

Some times bleeding a diesel can be straight forward and quick, but others it can be a battle to find and remove that last bubble.
Q Xopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 15:35   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Panama, Central America
Boat: CT 49, 1989
Posts: 891
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhulmer View Post
I have dual tanks and made my own system to swap between them and prefilters. I like redundancy on mission critical systems. I used a 4 way (6 port) valve to handle the fuel returns but You could easily adapt this to a hot swap filter using the Moeller 3way valve. Valve feeds one or the other filter at a time and the output on the filters run to a "Y" then to the engine. I can't remember if the Racors have builtin check valves but an inline check valve would be required on the outputs. I change the filter and add fuel into the top of the filter before I close the top.




https://www.defender.com/product.jsp...263&id=2178741
All true.

My preference is to use 2 x single valves and a T/Y instead of 1 x 3 way valve, to do the same thing.

Cheaper and much easier to find.
Q Xopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 15:44   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Wichita/Pensacola
Boat: Lagoon TPI 37'
Posts: 469
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Maybe I have been doing it all wrong but anytime my vacuum gauge creeps up, I open the Racor and change the filter with the engine running. I just have a jerry can available and fill the racor to the brim after changing the filter then screw cover on to top. Alittle spills out but have a diaper under to catch spillage. Have I been doing this all wrong?
sailingchiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 16:32   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Panama, Central America
Boat: CT 49, 1989
Posts: 891
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingchiro View Post
Maybe I have been doing it all wrong but anytime my vacuum gauge creeps up, I open the Racor and change the filter with the engine running. I just have a jerry can available and fill the racor to the brim after changing the filter then screw cover on to top. Alittle spills out but have a diaper under to catch spillage. Have I been doing this all wrong?
You are obviously doing your procedure fine, seeing it works.

Did someone say you are doing it wrong?

In my experience if you open a diesel fuel system and let air in, when it is running it will stop. I've found that unfortunately I cant get them to run on air, and I still have to keep buying diesel.

It sounds like, correct me if Im not understanding you correctly, that you dont let the filter bowl drain so the engine keeps pulling diesel. Im guessing, seeing you didnt elaborate, that you do this quickly enough before the engine drains the bowl. Is this what you are doing?

So thats obviously fine and it serves you well, great.

One other question, if I may, the remaining fuel in the bowl. Is it filtered or unfiltered fuel that has just caused your restriction and vacuum to go up?

Thank for sharing your exprience. Im happy to learn from you.
Q Xopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 17:12   #23
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,473
Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingchiro View Post
Maybe I have been doing it all wrong but anytime my vacuum gauge creeps up, I open the Racor and change the filter with the engine running. I just have a jerry can available and fill the racor to the brim after changing the filter then screw cover on to top. Alittle spills out but have a diaper under to catch spillage. Have I been doing this all wrong?


I would say yes, why do it with a running engine?
The vacuum gauge has a tattletale, there is no reason to look at it with the engine running, either look at it after you anchor, or before you pull anchor.
Fuel in the bowl is unfiltered fuel, its prior to the filter. Idea is of course that any particles are centrifuged out and any water being heavier will go to the bottom.
I believe the water part, but donít believe most of us pull enough fuel for the centrifuge part.

The Racor 500 is good for 60 gallons an hour, now we all pump more than we burn, but as I burn about .75 an hour, itís unlikely Iím even close to the fuel flow required to centrifuge the fuel.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 17:35   #24
Registered User
 
Madehn's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kemah Tx
Boat: Gulfstar 51
Posts: 309
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

so i have the dual racor setup with the vacumn gauge- i really like it. I also have an electric fuel pump plumbed in that could be used if i have an engine pump failure or can be used to fill the filter bowls on the racors- works great as well. before i had this i had units i put together myself using valves similar to those pictured-- it was a fair amount of work to get a system set up that worked well and i had issues with air leaks -- my system had rubber fuel hoses attached to hose barbs in the valves etc-- overall the factory racor setup took up less room and was much more bulletproof- it was also expensive, you pays your money and you takes your choice
Madehn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 17:53   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Panama, Central America
Boat: CT 49, 1989
Posts: 891
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I would say yes, why do it with a running engine?
The vacuum gauge has a tattletale, there is no reason to look at it with the engine running, either look at it after you anchor, or before you pull anchor.
Fuel in the bowl is unfiltered fuel, its prior to the filter. Idea is of course that any particles are centrifuged out and any water being heavier will go to the bottom.
I believe the water part, but donít believe most of us pull enough fuel for the centrifuge part.

The Racor 500 is good for 60 gallons an hour, now we all pump more than we burn, but as I burn about .75 an hour, itís unlikely Iím even close to the fuel flow required to centrifuge the fuel.
Yes correct, the fuel in the bowl is unfiltered. That was what I was trying to hint at.

So IMO, if you do want to hot swap out the elements its best to drain the bowl of the potentially contaminated fuel, install new element then refill the bowl with fresh fuel until air is out.

With a good filter setup its unlikely to be ever needed.

However it could be nice to have if your having a bad day caught in a bumpy bit of weather, trying to motor from a lee shore, with sediment in your tank getting shaken up, and quickly clogging successive filters.

Another reason to have a onboard polishing and priming setup. A lot of people get away without this. Maybe its overcomplicated. I have installed this sort of system on my boat. Each to their own.

As I said if you can do this no probs if we can isolate the one getting changed and then fill it up completelty. With the right setup and procedure no big probs.

As someone has just said it can be done other ways like not draining the bowls etc. IMO there is a risk of letting dirty fuel into the dirty fussy bits like injector pump and injectors.

Yes agreed that with low fuel flows through a filter rated for much higher there isnt going to be optimum velocity to centrifuge water out efficiently. By the same token, the fuel is not getting as mixed so voilently so it can settle to the bottom of the bowl in a gentler fashion.
Q Xopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 19:54   #26
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,473
Hot swap fuel pre-filters

Assuming you have sediment that it takes a seaway to shake it loose, a polishing system isnít going to get it, as the sediment is sitting on the bottom, until itís knocked loose by sloshing fuel.
But if you use a boat frequently and turn the fuel often, then sediment isnít going to be a problem.

Have you seen a tank professionally cleaned? They take what amounts to a pressure washer wand and spray the inside of the tank, because just pumping the fuel around in a circle doesnít do much, and they have BIG pumps and BIG filters too.

Now if I had a common rail, then Iíd polish to 1 micron, but for a different reason.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 20:23   #27
Registered User
 
NYSail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island, New York
Boat: Beneteau 423 43 feet
Posts: 679
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

I have the racor 500 as my primary with a 30 micron filter for my yanmar 4JH4E. What I love about the 500 series is that you can have the filter changed in a couple minutes tops.... been sailing for 20+ years (newbie) never had a clogged filter.

Good luck
NYSail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2019, 20:54   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grant, Fl
Boat: Gemini 105M, 34
Posts: 71
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

I have a system I made that uses two filters per engine (I have two engines) and a pump that can be used to fill the filters and polish the fuel, sucking out of the tank, or even a jerry jug through the Racor in case the fuel is questionable. I have changed one filter while the engine is running. I used three way valves so it took two valves per system. My generator is also hooked into this system.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0917181101-1.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	433.4 KB
ID:	203094  
captnknopf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2019, 00:55   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,102
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

In my boat and most boats I've been on have day tanks. The primary filters draw from the bottom of the tank and are mounted so the tops are lower than the typical fuel level. With dual filters, if you want to change an element running, the housing can be flooded by letting air escape at the top.
By drawing from the bottom of the day tank there is never a build up of sediment. If you filter the fuel coming from the bunker tanks, the day tank never gets a load of debris and you catch fuel problems long before the engine.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2019, 02:33   #30
Registered User
 
HeinSdL's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Switzerland
Boat: X-Yachts X442
Posts: 407
Re: Hot swap fuel pre-filters

I have a dual system (basically two Racor filters) which can be selected independently via some valves and a t-piece. There is also an electric fuel pump which can run by itself again via one of the two filters and condition the diesel in the tank via a magnetic filter which some say destroys bacteria. No idea if it's true but with all this talk of diesel bug I thought I'd put it in there. So when my boat sits waiting idle I can run the conditioning system and hopefully that keeps the tank clean. The tank does not have an inspection hatch so I have no idea what's in it and is hard to get to to install a hatch. So far though, no problems.

Having said all that - should one of the filters get plugged by this bug or whatever I can easily switch over to the other which should still be clean and get me home. I don't necessarily need to replace the plugged one while on the move but I like the back up I now have.
HeinSdL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HOT HOT HOT! running AC on Honda generator sailorboy1 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 79 27-06-2019 07:21
For Sale: Diesel Filters and Filters silverp40 Classifieds Archive 3 20-03-2014 13:08
Spectra Pre-Filters mojo Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 6 19-05-2010 07:57
fuel filters are fuel filters? Jack Long Engines and Propulsion Systems 17 08-09-2008 18:44
Ohhhhh Hot! Hot! Hot! knottybuoyz Marine Electronics 6 01-06-2007 07:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.