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29-01-2010, 08:20
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Morgan, O.I. 33' Dutch Treat
Posts: 414
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Have to Ask: Outboards on Sailboats?
Hello All,
Why is it you do not see sail boats with outboards?
You would have more room in the boat and they are much cheaper.
I am thinking it is because of HP at the prop
Dutch
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29-01-2010, 08:29
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#2
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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outboards are far less reliable, and gas engines are far less safe. Sailboats also tend to function better without weight in the ends (forward and aft) of the boat. An inboard engine centers the weight and gets it low.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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29-01-2010, 08:31
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater, MD
Boat: Coronado 25
Posts: 315
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From what I've been able to glean so far, after you get to a certain size, the OB just doesn't have enough push or provide enough control. The thrust is all from the very end of the boat.
I do have a 9.9 OB on my Coronado 25 and it seems to do pretty well. It's hidden in a well at the stern so I don't have to look at it. :P I also enjoy being able to just yank it off and drag it up to the house for maintenance. It's just a trade-off.
Bash- I'll give you everything except the reliability part. I just had a 38 year-old 70 hp Chrysler that ran like a dream for me. It's all about the maintenance. I have to admit...a diesel OB would be neat.
__________________
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
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29-01-2010, 08:40
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Morgan, O.I. 33' Dutch Treat
Posts: 414
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Ok thank you, I knew there had to be a reason
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29-01-2010, 08:48
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
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There is no reason why a properly maintained outboard would be 'less reliable' as a method of auxiliary propulsion.
It can be a perfect solution for the reason you mention. s/v Faith has an 'outboard in a well' which IMHO is a perfect combination of the strengths of an outboard equipped boat with few of the drawbacks. Over several thousand miles of cruising I have found it to be a nearly perfect solution.
The conventional (or now common) method of mounting an outboard on a sailboat does have some 'issues'... Many will mount an outboard on a retractable bracket on the transom. Boats generally do not like this arrangement, especially if they lack the reserve buoyancy aft.
THe weight of a heavy (especially 4 stroke) motor hanging off the stern can be undesirable. It is also prone to cavitate in conditions where the boat is pitching. The outboard in a well has none of these problems when properly executed.
Here is a link to James Baldwins site so you can see what I am talking about.
The transom mounted outboard is often difficult to access for throttle changes, and the 'remote control' option is cumbersome at least as installed on boats I have sailed.
The outboard is not necessarily less powerful, but I do see folks tend to vastly overestimate their needs. .. less really is more.
A 6hp outboard has suited me just fine with my boat... loaded in cruising trim just shy of 4 tons. I have sailed the same boat with a 9.9, and the stern squat was a problem... not to mention the weight. I have seen silly overpowering, for instance a Catalina 22 with a 15hp...
The outboard has distinct advantages, ease of maintenance and low cost of replacement being chief.
The ability to use the motor to 'vector thrust' when docking is also very helpful, but strangely I do not often see others taking advantage of this.
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29-01-2010, 08:50
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#6
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Chrysler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleHeadMd
Bash- I'll give you everything except the reliability part. I just had a 38 year-old 70 hp Chrysler that ran like a dream for me. It's all about the maintenance. I have to admit...a diesel OB would be neat.
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The happiest day of my entire boating career was the day I sold my Chrysler OB. I admit to having horrible outboard karma almost regardless of manufacturer, but the Chrysler was the worst in a long series of disappointing engines. Contrary to the claim that it's all about the maintenance, anyone who owns a still-functioning Chrysler has clearly made a pact with the devil.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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29-01-2010, 08:51
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#7
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
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I love this stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
and gas engines are far less safe.
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The problems I have seen with fires on boats have all been related to fueling.....i.e. operator stupidity....
In over 40 years on the water I have never seen an Atomic 4 suddenly burst into flame.
This is the same thinking that Westerbreak used when they took on the Universal Line.
The same way that General Motors bought up trolley lines....then changed to Buses.
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29-01-2010, 09:02
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater, MD
Boat: Coronado 25
Posts: 315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
<snip> Contrary to the claim that it's all about the maintenance, anyone who owns a still-functioning Chrysler has clearly made a pact with the devil.
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ROFL...Bash would you feel better about me if I told you that I sold it last week? Beelzeboat has released his lien on my soul.
__________________
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
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29-01-2010, 09:09
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norfolk, VA
Boat: Herreshoff 45 Second Star
Posts: 46
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The biggest issue I see is in waves, especially short steep waves where the prop spends a lot of time stirring the air. There's the weight in the ends issue and manufacturer's don't make extra long shaft motors above 10 hp.
Carl
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29-01-2010, 09:29
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cayuga Lake NY - or on the boat somewhere south of there
Boat: Caliber 35
Posts: 1,392
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I dont know the answer, but can a gasoline outboard go nonstop for 4 days in a row 24 hours a day? My diesel is very happy doing that.
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29-01-2010, 09:32
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater, MD
Boat: Coronado 25
Posts: 315
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A 4stroke with synthetic oil will. But I get your point. Diesel engines will outlive a gasoline engine every time.
__________________
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
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29-01-2010, 09:42
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,296
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Also, once you get up to 25-27' most modern sailboats are designed to be cruising capable. It doesn't matter that you just want to daysail or go racing. The manufacturer wants to be able to say that one or two people could spend a week on the boat in reasonable comfort with reasonable amenities. Such boats typically offer refrigeration, pressure water, and water heaters. An inboard will support those things; an outboard will not - even with optional outboard charging systems.
__________________
"There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats."
Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)
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29-01-2010, 09:46
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 1,038
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It is much more pleasant to deal with an engine issue inside the boat, than outside. Having said that, it is much easier still to pull an outboard off the boat, put it in the truck, take it to a mechanic and say fix this! Much depend on your usage. On coastal sailboats it may be unclear, once we get past our own prejuides and preference, which offers a better solution.
I see Seawind Catamarans with their out boards and I hold up my noise. Until I see them with the engine pulled off and think back to how difficult it was for me when I repowered. They are in protected locations, have long shafts, fuel tanks and lines appear to be mostly outside the boat. And $$$$ difference!!! But, they don't have the efficency of diesels.
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29-01-2010, 09:46
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#14
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...
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Boat: Harstad 31' (32' LOD) Serendipity
Posts: 95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndstar
The biggest issue I see is in waves, especially short steep waves where the prop spends a lot of time stirring the air. There's the weight in the ends issue and manufacturer's don't make extra long shaft motors above 10 hp.
Carl
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This is the very problem I had with our first boat. In any kind of weather, the outboard would scream as the prop came out of the water when the wave went under us. It was a constant battle while at the tiller, to crank the throttle down and up, and steer.
An inboard, and a diesel, is the only way to go. The shelf life of gas is too short, and a good diesel that is well-maintained is really reliable.
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29-01-2010, 10:03
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Boat: Transworld Formosa 41
Posts: 233
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I have an old Macgregor Venture 25 (has a weighted drop keel on a cable). And it has a 10 HP outboard.
There's no built in engine and shouldn't be. The 10 hp is JUST enough to push me up to the crowded dock (because, quite simply, you can't sail up to it because people are too rude, cutting you off, running big wakes even though they aren't supposed to with power ski machines and so forth).
I try to sail away from the dock if it's not too crowded but many times I simply have to drop the motor in the water and pull the rip cord and back out slowly, set sails when away from docking.
I have never had any problems with the engine, keep it cleaned and checked - thought I need to regrease it this winter, just haven't had time.
Given all that, I'm sailing on lakes, and not in the ocean. I would NOT want to power a sailboat, large or small with an outboard on the sea. I can't imagine it would be powerful enough or sit deeply enough to power the boat in high seas. NOT a good idea.
__________________
Rick Donaldson, CET, NØNJY
If you survive today, tomorrow will be better.
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