Great Lakes- winter use of 2QM15?

[kayakerChuck]

I'm sitting here drinking hot tea and watching the snow fall here in Detroit. Our boat is on the hard for the winter, and I got a bit chilled this morning as I was working on her.

Our winters here are (usually) no longer the winters I enjoy. I'm one of "those" who like snow. I have an iceboat, taught people how to sleep in snowdrifts, and generally have time to play in the winter. Sadly, most of our winters are now 4 or five months of mud with little opportunity for winter type fun. It still does occasionally drop to sub zero(F) temps here. I'd rather be sailing, so I'm scheming for next year. The cost for me to store on land or in the water is roughly equal.

The owner's manual for my 2QM15 just says to open the block and exhaust manifold drain cocks. That still leaves the sea strainer, water pump">raw water pump, and muffler to either drain or protect with antifreeze.

The Groco is easy to drain. From there, the water hose has a pretty constant slope up to my raw water pump. Is draining the Groco likely to also drain the raw water pump? I'd like to minimize the use of $$$/gallon antifreeze, plus I doubt it's great for the fishies. Of course, it takes a WHOLE LOT of antifreeze to equal the cost of any motor damage or repair...

Any guidance is welcome!

[Shrew]

It's all fun and games, until you start taking spray.

In all honesty, you'll likely be hard pressed to find interested guests beyond the first or second trip. You'll find yourself going through all of this for 2-3 sails a winter. I wouldn't bother.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

...........
The Groco is easy to drain. From there, the water hose has a pretty constant slope up to my raw water pump. Is draining the Groco likely to also drain the raw water pump? .........
Any guidance is welcome!

Short answer - I don't know.
Long answer - I would expect the raw water pump would be partially drained but some water would remain trapped by the impeller vanes. Would the flexible vanes accommodate any freezing? Again I dunno but unless I knew for sure, I wouldn't take the chance. I would remove the raw water pump cover plate to ensure it was drained. Quick job to replace when needed.

[Jammer]

The people who store in the Mississippi River here (portions never freeze) install some sort of electric heat in the engine compartment.

[Compass790]

I have no experience with freezing weather but think if you rotate engine decompressed both ways with water pump inlet hose off you should be able to drain raw water pump ok.
My GUESS is waterlock muffler if its plastic should survive. Yea dont crack the block, they are a real tough old motor that can go for a long long time. Just keep an eye on oil pump clearances & exhaust mixing elbow though in fresh water I imagine they last a very long time.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Compass790

I have no experience with freezing weather but think if you rotate engine decompressed both ways with water pump inlet hose off you should be able to drain raw water pump ok.
.......

Yep, that would work and easier than my idea of removing the cover plate.

[deblen]

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You could install a 1/2" tee with ball valve drain at bottom pressure outlet of RW pump. /Len

[David Mathis]

We're in upstate New York where the water gets very hard from about Christmas until late March or maybe April. Our boat has twin 420 hp Cats and a 9kw Kohler generator. For the generator, which has a heat exchanger rather than fresh water cooling, the strainer is opened and a shop vac with the hose on the discharge side is used to remove the water between the seacock and the strainer. Use a funnel as an adapter between the strainer and vacuum hose. When the water is forced from the hose, you'll see bubbles coming from under the hull. Close the seacock while still blowing the bubbles, move the vacuum hose to the suction side, and vacuum the water from the strainer. Use RV anti-freeze to fill the strainer then have someone start the generator. Keep pouring the anti-freeze into the strainer until the appropriate amount to flush the heat exchanger has been used then shut off the engine. We use about a gallon and a half for this engine which is a three cylinder Yanmar. Now remove the drain from the water lift muffler. When it's drained, replace the plug. It's about the same for the Cats but they take a lot more anti-freeze, about five gallons per engine.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

... For the generator, which has a heat exchanger rather than fresh water cooling, the strainer is opened and a shop vac with the hose on the discharge side is used to remove the water between the seacock and the strainer. Use a funnel as an adapter between the strainer and vacuum hose...

Or a Universal Tool Adapter [2.5" to 1.0"]

[kayakerChuck]

Thanks All!

Now I have lots more ideas and methods to think through. I'll leave the thinking for another day- too much headache & not enough sleep today. But, I did get enough work done so that I can use a welcome "warm" day tomorrow to work on the boat.

[PerfectPirate]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

The owner's manual for my 2QM15 just says to open the block and exhaust manifold drain cocks. That still leaves the sea strainer, raw water pump, and muffler to either drain or protect with antifreeze.

I am running a 2QM20 on Lake Ontario. It's a great old engine and I love it. If your user manual is like my original manual, opening the drain cocks is only step 2 of cold weather preparation. Step 3 in the manual says "Remove both inlet and outlet hoses from water pump, then disassemble the cover to discharge water from inside the water pump. After following the above procedure, assemble it as before."

This highlights the true problem. If you are going to be faced with freezing temperatures, the ENTIRE water system, from intake to discharge, needs to be either drained or filled with antifreeze. As you yourself pointed out, simply draining the block will still leave your strainer, water pump and hoses at risk, including the water intake hose, waterlock muffler and any other components in your exhaust system. If water should freeze and block your waterlock muffler, you are then at risk of hydro-locking your engine, or blowing your exhaust system apart. Or perhaps the back pressure will be sufficient to stop the engine from turning over and starting, which at least would be a best-case scenario. To winterize my system while on the hard, I first drain the block and the Groco strainer, then I run two gallons of heavy-duty antifreeze through the system, capturing it in a bucket when it exhausts from the transom. It takes two gallons to make sure that both the engine's water jacket and the exhaust system are full protected. (Note: For any readers who are not used to winterizing raw-water cooled engines, it is necessary to first drain the block waterjacket, otherwise the thermostat blocks the circulation of antifreeze through the block.)

So, you will either need to go through all of that each time you take her out for a winter sail, or you will need to keep your engine compartment and cockpit lockers sufficiently heated to ensure that no components of the system are at risk of freezing, all the way out to the transom. And god help you if there is a power failure at your dock or from a winter storm. Not a risk which I would be comfortable with.

However, I sympathize with your desire for a winter activity. I used to do a lot of cross-country skiing, but conditions over the past couple of winters have left us with miserable amounts of snow cover and generally shitty conditions. Here in my neck of the woods, once the keelboats are out on the hard, some of the die-hard sailors go "Frostbiting" in small, stable dinghies. They wear exposure suits and by all accounts have a great time until there is sufficient cold weather to create an ice cover on the harbours. Sailing days invariably end with the consumption of lots of hot toddies. Would that sort of activity be available in your location?

[Compass790]

Good post perfect pirate!
I have no experience with freezing sailing & admire the toughness required.