Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-09-2019, 04:30   #106
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,789
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
She's an ex trawler that was working the gulf of Carpentaria so has been refuelled in some pretty remote locations.

South east Asia has some pretty remote filling spots and stories of fuel issues are legion.
Interesting that several long term cruisers I speak to up there, some with 25 years in the area claim to have had no issues and don't use biocide but they are the ones using 500fg or larger filters whereas the ones with the endless problems do not.

Something I am looking at installing prior to our trip up is a 200mic prefilter to get the big stuff before it hits my dual 1000ma 30 mic and 10mic and dual on engine 2mic filters.

https://www.boatstore.com/racor-3002...g-200-mic.html

I've cruised asia extensively. I had bad fuel twice, had to fly a dozen fuel filters in from Sydney to west Sumatra once.

The west marine type filters that you use to pour fuel into the tank through are fairly useless in my experience, although most up there use them.

I now have a mobile fuel polisher that all fuel passes through , a 2 micron racor 500 filters the fuel as it goes into the tank.

If I had a trawler I'd have a serious fuel polishing system installed and working fulltime, plus I'd use a bio biocide of sometype.

I watched a modern trawler get towed by my mates Selene 48 trawler 500nm in Raja Ampat. One had a great fuel polishing system the other didnt.

Nothing goes into my tank that doesn't go through the the 2 micron first.
daletournier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 04:48   #107
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 3,642
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier View Post

If I had a trawler I'd have a serious fuel polishing system installed and working fulltime, plus I'd use a bio biocide of sometype.

I watched a modern trawler get towed by my mates Selene 48 trawler 500nm in Raja Ampat. One had a great fuel polishing system the other didnt.

Nothing goes into my tank that doesn't go through the the 2 micron first.
Like I said earlier, we have an nta855m Cummins, possibly the 2nd best engine EVER according to some sites.

Looking at the specs she pumps at full noise 326 litres/hr through the numerous filters including 2 x 2 mic sediment and water filters and dumps 265 litres of squeaky clean mothers milk back into the tanks.

Awesome bit of kit it would seem.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 05:12   #108
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,789
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
I wonder how all those vessels in poorer countries go that can't access or afford to import biobor, stanydyne, startron or the like.

Their fuel tanks must have bubbling black mess exploding out the top yet for some reason they don't.
Many have very agricultural engines, I've seen many single pots that hand crank (many).

The tolerances on modern engines are alot less ,specially newer common rail diesels , at 30,000psi a very tiny thing becomes a dangerous projectile to a fuel system.

My old boat had a 3gm30f yanmar, somewhere in between agricultural and very modern. Sometimes in Asia you are getting fuel scooped from 44 gallon drums in a crappy dirty fueling depot, I've even had it scooped out of drums on the beach and filtered through a sock.

Trust me ,Biocide and a bullet proof filtering system has no downside if your cruising remotely of the beaten track.
daletournier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 05:36   #109
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,789
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Like I said earlier, we have an nta855m Cummins, possibly the 2nd best engine EVER according to some sites.

Looking at the specs she pumps at full noise 326 litres/hr through the numerous filters including 2 x 2 mic sediment and water filters and dumps 265 litres of squeaky clean mothers milk back into the tanks.

Awesome bit of kit it would seem.
I would want a filtering system that cleans the fuel prior to the engines fuel filter system, I'd rather clog the one that dosen't effect the engine.

In places like Australia, the US, Europe etc it dosent matter, theres always someone to help, help is a radio or phone call away, and the gulf of carpinteria isnt remote (relatively speaking), I've sailed it twice , that's not the case when travelling off the grid.

My point is that a bulletproof polishing system for a boat that is 100% dependent on its engine is very cheap insurance if traveling remote IMHO.

Your obviously a knowledgeable guy, if your comfortable with your system stick with it.

My perspective is based on seeing the problems of bad fuel in places where help is minimal and self sufficiency is a must. I've been sweating my ass off at a remote island on the equator emptying my fuel tank, hand cleaning it and then filtering fuel back in through a 5 micron water filters to get us going. My lessons have been earnt.

In regards to the people you've spoken to that have had no problems in Asia, theres many that go around the world with no problems that do nothing special BUT some do the same thing and get unlucky.

I had 2 friends last year stuck from growth in their tanks, both competent round the worlders.....it happens.
daletournier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 05:47   #110
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 158
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Many have very agricultural engines, I've seen many single pots that hand crank (many).

The tolerances on modern engines are alot less ,specially newer common rail diesels , at 30,000psi a very tiny thing becomes a dangerous projectile to a fuel system.

My old boat had a 3gm30f yanmar, somewhere in between agricultural and very modern. Sometimes in Asia you are getting fuel scooped from 44 gallon drums in a crappy dirty fueling depot, I've even had it scooped out of drums on the beach and filtered through a sock.

Trust me ,Biocide and a bullet proof filtering system has no downside if your cruising remotely of the beaten track.
Not according to Semi 60, you don't need it.........
CF32907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 06:26   #111
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 2,949
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

...some years ago, I repowered a sailboat I had at the time with a bigger diesel engine. As part of that process, I also removed the old fuel tank. That tank was probably 8 years old.

...on a whim, I opened the " inspection" ports on the top of the tank.

...the bottom inside of the tank was covered in about a 1/4" layer of black gooey slime...as were the lower sides of the tank. No additives were ever used in the fuel.

The fuel pickup line was about 1.5 " from the bottom of the tank...so I never had any problem that the filter good not handle....but was unnerved by the amount of goop inside the tank.

Flash forward a few years. My Beneteau had a brand new diesel engine installed by the previous owner, but there was no separate diesel fuel filter, so I added a Racor 500. Much to my surprise, within a few weeks, that Racor was black as mud. I had a fuel polisher guy come and clean the fuel and was stunned to see the crap in the tank...

One may be familiar with the so-called " Baha Filter".....a device one sticks under the fuel hose to catch detritus from unknown fuel sources..

Despite the ongoing thread about the various types of diesel fuel, getting good " clean" fuel is often a problem. Stateside, one would expect the " good "stuff.....but cruising may put you in a spot, where the diesel will be delivered to your boat from a truck or a rusty old drum on the truck...and there is no telling what you will get...
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 06:56   #112
Registered User
 
JC Reefer's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 458
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

In a past life I ran yachts for a living. Keep the tanks filled above to 80 % all the time to remove space where algae can grow. Always used fuel additives (biobor). Always have a fuel system with a fuel filter. I typically would not use a prefilter when filling from a known source but always used one if in unknown waters.

A good set of rancor filters is a life saver.
JC Reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2019, 07:02   #113
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,239
Re: Fuel additives? Yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by CF32907 View Post
What makes you think they don't. Most of the third world areas I've been in have large filters with nasty glass and virtually black fuel. If you want to run your vessel that way, we know what your feelings are. I was a marine surveyor for 20 years, built six boats and to airplanes. I'm very opinionated, but that is what I was paid for. I've seen the best to the worst, I surveyed Haitian boats for the gsa, there systems are the nastiest, but most still ran. What's your point, we need to do no maintenance nor preventative work at all. You do what I say, it may keep you out of trouble, you do what you say, your eventually will break down, hopefully where you can get help.....I do feel very sorry for you!!!

Very strange writing. You criticize what "I do," when all I said was that people without money probably cannot afford to have a boat just sit around. They either use the boat, or don't have one. I did not say or imply anything about preventive maintenance, although you seem to have inferred much. In fact, I have published numerous articles on fuel system maintenance. I have been actively involved in researching additives and filtration systems as a part of my day job as a chemical engineer. As a licensed tank inspector, I assure you I have seen the worst.


Perhaps you were responding to someone else.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are fuel additives needed for diesel engines Bigjim Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 16-08-2017 23:47
Diesel Fuel Additives defever Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 30-12-2010 13:48
Do You Really Need Fuel Additives ? off-the-grid Engines and Propulsion Systems 14 23-08-2010 15:49
Fuel Additives for Lubrication Bloodhound Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 05-01-2010 16:26

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.