Fitting a fuel valve solenoid instead of a pull to stop system..

[winschwab]

No, it's not that hard, just annoying. Many boats require removing the companionway to access the manual engine cutoff. I have a small engine room with a door, so it's not so bad. My Westerbeke 55c has (had) a solenoid that shuts off in the fail mode. In other words, in run mode the solenoid has constant power to hold the plunger back. The solenoid failed, so I cut the plunger off (long story why I don't want to replace it). My plan is to eventually install a manual shutoff cable.

[mcon12000]

Mine is a cable and I also have an inside the Pilot house helm in addition to my cockpit helm. Currently I can’t shut my engine down from the pilot house only the outside helm. It’s a bit annoying but I prefer the simplicity of the cable.

[parkstone bay]

what works for you is good - on Bukhs, they have a stop solenoid, which has to be energised to interrupt the fuel. This is done by turning the start key back , (anticlockwise) from "run", through "off" to the "stop" position. This is fine unless the boat is ever used by someone used to a manual pull-lever; that confuses the hell out of them "I can't stop the engine" (and usually they've turned the key to "off" so the alternator diodes are frying gently ........!) AND you've taken then through start up and shut down procedures. And the solenoid does use a lot of those wiggly amps; as soon as the engine is stopped, return key to "off".

[Aethelwulffe]

My idiot rambling thoughts:

A 4107 is the tractor version (wet liners, originally different pan, etc..). Pretty sure that the 4108, the marinized engine has a different and environmentally durable actuator. I honestly can't recall ever replacing one. Same with Westerbekes. Maybe look for a non "Hecho in Chino" version from a real marine application? Most of the shut-off solenoids are plunger solenoids (which are linear actuators). They only engage long enough to snuff the engine. They are not rotary gearbox actuators AKA "lifters". There is absolutely no reason why anyone should use anything other than a basic magnetic plunger solenoid in a momentary application. If your engine requires electricity to run, I recommend removing that "interlock safety" sub-system (probably from the tractor) and just install a plain jane shutoff solenoid. Your system should have key switch, a start button, and a shut-off button. Both the start and the shutoff should be momentary power-applied linear solenoids.



Honestly, my own Parama M20 (which I saw every day) had a manual shutoff cable. It was a problematic POS. It died, and I decided to use some extra throttle lever travel to rig a mechanical shut-off that worked when I excessively retarded the throttle. The throttle hits the stop, and the cable actually stretches against a spring as it moves forward (stops additional pressure against the throttle lever) and that motion momentarily supplies an interrupt. Once the engine dies, you release the pressure and you are ready to restart. I made it all with bits of SS rodstock and guides recovered from some ancient boat that had a way of latching and unlatching the lazzarettes from the salon. Great security measure against any thief lacking a pry-bar or someone at the helm desperate to get an extra cushion, but made great rod linkages.
Later on, I replaced the dead cable just to have it as a backup, but it corroded up before I ever finished hooking it up. I was worried that my hinky-linky setup was going to fail. Honestly, the more I look at it, the less paranoid it makes me. Probably more rigid than need be, and if a spring craps up, the system will still work. I can say that the CO2 bottle engine compartment actuator, which is basically a piece of wire-rope inside a hose, is just as mobile and rust free when I bequeathed that boat as the day decades before when I rigged it up. I generally think that a serious bronze spring and a piece of 3x7 cable might be more dependable than fancy rigid control cables for momentary-on applications.

[Aethelwulffe]

Looked up the correct part...the one that will actually be happy for decades. Of course, it is not cheap: Genie 236426 shutoff kit, and it comes with the perkins logo on the box.


You can tell by looking at it that it is meant for critical applications. No cheap plating, no "Rust Me" signs stuck on it's back. Very different appearance from the "works with" flavors of solenoid.

[Jimmyhenry]

Which ever way you go make sure you have a manual system by which you can shut down the engine. A friend had an engine room fire and the electronics failed so the engine could not be stopped. They eventually stopped it by turning off the fuel at the tank.

[NNBill]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

OH, either put a spring between the solenoid and the fuel shut off level or be sure it’s rigged so the solenoid hits it’s stop just a little before the lever, they are quite powerful and may could damage the lever or internals if the lever hits it stop before the solenoid does.
A spring would just stretch out if the lever hits it’s stop first

That and the current solenoids pull is very high untill the core seats, and / or opens an internal switch which shuts off power to the pull in coil leaving just the low current hold coil energised.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

I am afraid everyone seems to be missing my point. I have a manual shut off lever which is a pain. Its for emergencies only. Connected to it is a linear actuator / servo / solenoid. When it is powered it releases the stop lead and the lever moves forward. If the power fails it stays in its last known position either pull or push.


This linear actuator is a PITA. It corrodes over two years. The chinese always send me the wrong one.


My question was, and only one person has answered it so far, can I fit a valve in the fuel line between the lift pump and the injector distributer pump? It is a CAV, Hydraulic governed system.


Reading the spec the governer shuts off the feed on the low pressure side. That's what I would like to do. Just momentarily to stop the engine, or pull the handle in an emergency.

According to this CAV video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqDBMLB7jcY

the governor shuts off the feed on the medium pressure circuit, at the metering valve, which is not the same as shutting it off between the lift pump and the injection pump.

There is a built-in relief valve that recirculates fuel back to the suction side (because the integral medium pressure pump within the injection pump supplies more fuel than the high pressure side can use), so I doubt that any ill effects on the injection pump would result from putting a valve where you describe. I would be more curious to see how long it took the engine to actually shut down, as compared to shutting it down by interrupting the flow at the metering valve...


To be sure though, this is a question for a specialist, so a call to the injection shop seems in order.

[Aethelwulffe]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

Which ever way you go make sure you have a manual system by which you can shut down the engine. A friend had an engine room fire and the electronics failed so the engine could not be stopped. They eventually stopped it by turning off the fuel at the tank.

What he said.


Personally, I like rigging the throttle so that if shoved back far enough, it will starve the engine below the ability to idle on engines that can do this. The Perkins/Genie part number is the proper part though, and those others are...not dependable looking at all.

Anyone remember VW air cooled engines that had a spring that holds the throttle open if the accelerator cable breaks? Scary stuff. Not as bad and unmanagable as a diesel "dieseling" as it eats it's own lubricant past leaky rings, but...

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

I have a Perkins 4107 diesel. To stop the engine I pull a lever on the injector pump. To make it easier I have a linear servo which when activated feeds out and a spring pulls the lever to the "RUN" position. When I turn the ignition off the linear activator pulls the wire back in and the engine stops. As seen below.


My old engine had a solenoid in the injector which needed to be energized for fuel to flow.


Can I fit a solenoid valve between the fuel pump and the injector pump to do the same job to start the engine? One person said yes and another said the engine will race away, then stop and need re-bleeding.


The reason I am asking is that the linear servo keeps getting corroded and needs replacing every 2-3 seasons. Also China keep sending me the wrong one that pulls when energised and not pushes.

One more thing to fail . How about a manual engine stop cable.

[jsanton]

Sorry, didn’t read entire thread.
No you don’t want to shutoff the fuel supply, you’ll need to reprime at restart.
Yanmar has a shutoff solenoid specified for their engines. Rock solid reliable. That should solve your problem. If the actuator fails, go below and pull on lever.

[skenn_ie]

If there is a primer lever on thelift pump, ho;domg that against the spring may stop the engine. Definitely, don't put your hand over the air intake, a bigger engine could easily turn your hand inside out. On a similar vein, never try putting your finger over a high-pressure oil/fuel leak.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Why don't you just replace the servo with a shut off solenoid? When you want to kill the engine, you push a button to energize the solenoid until the engine stops. When there's no power, it returns back to the run position, so unless something goes really bad internally, you'll be able it to start to engine again. It's connected to the injector pump the same way with a cable. Attachment 215261

I'm thinking of one of these. Have you or anyone else had good experiences with it? If it broke, after how long?

[hughespat57]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Why don't you just replace the servo with a shut off solenoid? When you want to kill the engine, you push a button to energize the solenoid until the engine stops. When there's no power, it returns back to the run position, so unless something goes really bad internally, you'll be able it to start to engine again. It's connected to the injector pump the same way with a cable. Attachment 215261

Retired ASE Master Diesel Mechanic...

This style that CaptNemo02 showed is the proper/common shutdown solenoid for a diesel engine. As NNBill pointed out they do need to be properly adjusted. Allow to bottom out, they have a high current "pull in" coil to insure engine start and a low current "holding coil". Typical install is spring loaded to the shutdown position, solenoid pulls to run position and holds. This manner it turns on with the ignition key or a run switch, shuts off with loss of power (key off or switch off).

They can be installed to shutdown on energized with a momentary "stop" push button . Spring loaded to run, shutdown on pull.
They are not a cheap solenoid, but very rugged and reliable when correctly adjusted.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Why don't you just replace the servo with a shut off solenoid? When you want to kill the engine, you push a button to energize the solenoid until the engine stops. When there's no power, it returns back to the run position, so unless something goes really bad internally, you'll be able it to start to engine again. It's connected to the injector pump the same way with a cable. Attachment 215261

+1 A lot of 4108's have them fitted to the shutoff lever.