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Old 07-12-2020, 15:56   #1
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Engine smoke and sheen on the water

My engine troubles continue. Recently purchased a rebuilt Volvo Md22 to replace my old perkins m50 that was hard to start and put out quite a bit of smoke until warm. Well this engine seems to be just as bad as it smokes all the time and leaves a sheen on the water.



When i first got the engine i started it in the garage and ran it for a few minutes before i noticed the glow plugs had been stuck on.i found that there was a wiring problem on the harness for the glow plugs and fixed it. The next time i started it i noticed a little bit of smoke but figured it was because it was cold. Ran it up to temp to make sure the cooling system was good before i put it in the boat.



Now i have it in the boat and its putting out a bit of smoke and sheen all the time, more when cold.



does this look like the rings aren't seating or possibly an injector problem? i haven't put more than 2 hours on the engine since i put it in the boat so i haven't noticed any oil loss. I've also tried changing the fuel source with no change at all.



Video from seller:




Video now after install:
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Old 07-12-2020, 17:01   #2
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

I have the same problem with a Volvo Penta 2003 and look forward to seeing some responses.

I have read a lot about this problem but I am having hard time determining if the smoke is black, blue or white. And when does the sheen on the water become important and what does it mean?

There are some technical sources that suggest the smoke/sheen issue is a result of incorrectly adjusted injectors. But, the Previous Owner had the injectors serviced a few years and not many hundred hours ago. Is it possible that the injectors were not done correctly? We had the injectors (Perkins 4.108) done on our other boat and it caused no end of down stream problems, possibly because of an incorrectly timed high pressure injection pump.
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Old 07-12-2020, 17:45   #3
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

I'm not a professional diesel mechanic or familiar with that engine but looking at the sales vid I did not like the sound it made ( lots of mechanical noise) or the amount of smoke it blew when revved. However best to wait for a comment from an MD 22 owner as they know more how a healthy one looks & sounds like.

My initial thoughts are it wasnt rebuilt properly or wasnt rebuilt at all.
Your in boat vid looks like a fuel burn problem, could be a number of things, but yes I'd be looking at injectors & timing for a start. Being worse when its cold makes it more likely that the fuel isnt getting burnt properly. The sheen looked more like diesel but scoop some up & check that its not engine oil, harder to tell from a vid.
If it smokes more when hot it's more likely to be engine oil.

Does it start easy from cold? I know it did in sales vid & your vid but maybe it was hot. If it starts easy from cold it's not likely to be a compression issue.
Thats my shade tree mechanic thoughts anyway.
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Old 07-12-2020, 18:24   #4
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

Forgot to say sounds pretty good at idle.
Mastermuffin did you scroll down to btm of this page & look at similar threads? Lots more ideas in there.
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Old 07-12-2020, 18:44   #5
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

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Originally Posted by Compass790 View Post
Forgot to say sounds pretty good at idle.
Mastermuffin did you scroll down to btm of this page & look at similar threads? Lots more ideas in there.

Thanks for the response, it starts right up when cold but i don't think that really rules out a problem with the bottom end. Ive tried cracking injectors to see if the sheen might disappear but didn't notice any real difference. Though i might not have left them open long enough. Engine still seems to run fine on 3 cylinders but drops in idle a bit.



Ive read almost every post on the internet relating to smoke and sheen, some posts from around 2000 say these engines tend to smoke even when brand new but i don't think the sheen its leaving behind is acceptable. my old Perkins m50 wouldn't leave a sheen once warmed up.



really hope i don't have a problem similar to Sojourner where there are rings lined up in one of the cylinders



https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ed-213947.html
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Old 07-12-2020, 18:53   #6
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

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Originally Posted by Marathon1150 View Post
I have the same problem with a Volvo Penta 2003 and look forward to seeing some responses.

I have read a lot about this problem but I am having hard time determining if the smoke is black, blue or white. And when does the sheen on the water become important and what does it mean?

There are some technical sources that suggest the smoke/sheen issue is a result of incorrectly adjusted injectors. But, the Previous Owner had the injectors serviced a few years and not many hundred hours ago. Is it possible that the injectors were not done correctly? We had the injectors (Perkins 4.108) done on our other boat and it caused no end of down stream problems, possibly because of an incorrectly timed high pressure injection pump.

i had the injectors rebuilt on my old Perkins prima m50 (same as the md22) to try and fix the smoke issue at startup with no change. So I'm reluctant to think that's the issue with this one. unfortunately the injectors are slightly different so i don't think i can just swap them to test.
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Old 07-12-2020, 21:30   #7
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

Well if you doubt it's a fuel issue, compression test is the next step tho just because it wasnt your injectors on the Perkins doesn't necessarily mean it isnt on the volvo. Whoops sorry didnt read properly the bit where the Perkins same as the volvo so understand yr reluctance to focus on fuel.
Maybe the glowplugs compensate for lack of compression to explain quick starting?


Have you done a head gasket leak test?

What was done on the rebuild?
Do you have the service manual?
How many hours since rebuild?

I don't know of an instant way to work out yr engines problem, my approach is to work through the checks if unsure & begin with the easiest first.
Again better for your sake if someone with engine specific experience chimes in.
DougR knows volvos you could do a search & PM him.
Hope that helps
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Old 07-12-2020, 22:11   #8
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

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Originally Posted by Compass790 View Post
Well if you doubt it's a fuel issue, compression test is the next step tho just because it wasnt your injectors on the Perkins doesn't necessarily mean it isnt on the volvo. Whoops sorry didnt read properly the bit where the Perkins same as the volvo so understand yr reluctance to focus on fuel.
Maybe the glowplugs compensate for lack of compression to explain quick starting?


Have you done a head gasket leak test?

What was done on the rebuild?
Do you have the service manual?
How many hours since rebuild?

I don't know of an instant way to work out yr engines problem, my approach is to work through the checks if unsure & begin with the easiest first.
Again better for your sake if someone with engine specific experience chimes in.
DougR knows volvos you could do a search & PM him.
Hope that helps

-I"ll disconnected the glow plugs and see if that changes anything but doubt it, pretty sure I've started it cold with glow plug wire unplugged.





-New Piston Rings, New Main Bearings, New Big End Bearings, New Valves & Seats, New Exhaust Mixer, New Engine Mounts, Rebuilt SW Pump, New Timing Belt & Tensioner


-have the perkins workshop manual but not volvo
-Since I've had it id say less than 3 hours of run time



-looking at the engine the head gasket does look new, same with oil pan gasket so I'm guessing they were at least off at one point. Want to do a compression/leak down but with the last engine i couldn't find a mechanic that had the adapter to test it. Guess I'm going to take a spare injector and have it modified to work.



Around here it seems not many mechanics have experience with this engine, if anyone knows a good mechanic around the seattle Wa area let me know
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Old 07-12-2020, 22:28   #9
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

I had a boat stored in the water over the winter in Norwich, CT about 5 years ago.

The engine hadn’t been started all winter and the night before we were going to leave the marina I decided to start it up to make sure it would run when we needed to leave.

If you know what it looks like when they spray for mosquitoes that’s what happened. I filled the little valley with white smoke. I ran the engine to try to get it to warn up and it just kept pouring out white smoke.

A guy at the marina suggested I check the air filter to make sure it wasn’t clogged. The filter was fine and the engine smoked even with the filter off but with white smoke I had an unburned fuel problem, although the engine ran fine when we stopped running it in the fall.

The next day we headed down the river and gradually the smoke decreased. Three hours later the engine stopped smoking and it never smoked again.

This was a Perkins 4.108 BTW.

I would take your boat out and run it for a few hours under load with the prop pushing the boat. I would be very surprised if that doesn’t fix it.
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Old 08-12-2020, 00:07   #10
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

Yea with that low hours try post #9 cure.
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Old 08-12-2020, 01:30   #11
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

If it was mine, I would continue to 'run it in' until it has about 10 hours on it, then change the oil (and filter) and then run it like I stole it for about 50 hours (apologies to A64pilot for using his phrase ).

Then see it there are any outstanding issues.
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:19   #12
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

2 hours run time is not long enough to seat the rings. If it's rebuilt and they put new rings in it run the engine hard (2200 to 3000 RPM) at times for at least 20 hours and then see what you got. Try and vary the speed of the engine, no more than 10 minutes at any given RPM. Accelerating full throttle from Idle to wide open 3000 rpm with a load on it is the best way to seat rings. The smoke is probably fuel. Check what if any your oil consumption is but you are getting worried way too prematurely.

Compression test would tell you about rings but it starts way too easy for low compression. Leak down test would tell you the same but I wouldn't bother doing either until you put some hours on it.

Smoke could be injection timing or injectors. Run it some first. The sheen you see is nothing to worry about. Could be left over stuff in the exhaust system. Or unburned fuel or or or...
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:22   #13
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

I would give it more than two hours before paranoia sets in.
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:26   #14
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

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Originally Posted by Mastermuffin View Post
Thanks for the response, it starts right up when cold but i don't think that really rules out a problem with the bottom end. Ive tried cracking injectors to see if the sheen might disappear but didn't notice any real difference. Though i might not have left them open long enough. Engine still seems to run fine on 3 cylinders but drops in idle a bit.



Ive read almost every post on the internet relating to smoke and sheen, some posts from around 2000 say these engines tend to smoke even when brand new but i don't think the sheen its leaving behind is acceptable. my old Perkins m50 wouldn't leave a sheen once warmed up.



really hope i don't have a problem similar to Sojourner where there are rings lined up in one of the cylinders



https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ed-213947.html
I question the whole aligned ring gap thing. The rings are constantly rotating on the piston as the engine runs, up to 4 to 5 RPM, so if the gaps DID become aligned, it would not be for long. Perhaps if the entire ring package all rotated in unison they would maintain the alignment of the gaps, but how likely is that?
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Old 08-12-2020, 11:39   #15
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Re: Engine smoke and sheen on the water

Mastermuffin, I had a similar looking issue on one of my Volvo D-130s this year. I would recommend you do (or have done for you) a compression test. The more information you have the better you guesses will be. Personally I think it is better to find out as much as you can right away.

My issue was weird in that it ended up being a bent piston rod and some damage. I am not saying that you have the same issue but to me it looks like fuel in the exhaust so something is leaking past for whatever reason.

Good luck!
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