Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-03-2020, 16:20   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Engine problem

I have a Thorneycroft 80D engine on my yacht, basically the same as Westerbeke K4. I had start problems earlier this year so when we hauled I had the injectors serviced, four new nozzles, cleaned the fuel tank, replaced the rubber ‘O’ rings of the injector pump delivery valves. Tested the engine and all seemed ok. When we were launched the engine ran till we were ready to leave the cradle then stopped and refused to restart. We hauled out again and started checking the system.
There was air getting in so all low pressure hose and connections have been remade, filters changed along with their rubber seals. The engine runs for 10-15 minutes and stops, it will not start again immediately unless I bleed the injectors then it runs for a few minutes and stops again. If I leave it till the next morning it starts fine but again stops after 10-15 mins. I eliminated the tank by running from a can of clean diesel same thing happens again. I am now at a loss as to what it can be. I cannot get an engineer in or buy parts or get parts looked at as we are in lockdown due to Coronavirus.
Philtadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 16:49   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,085
Images: 241
Re: Engine problem

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Philtadd.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 17:27   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Re: Engine problem

Look up Diesel loss of prime on the Internet, that should give you some trouble shooting steps to take.
But suspect everything before the low pressure pump and even it actually.
If you have access to clear vinyl hose, sometimes putting in a piece will let you see if any air is getting in, then keep moving the piece of vinyl hose towards the tank until the bubbles go away.
Of course clear vinyl is not acceptable for fuel hose, but just for trouble shooting it’s OK in my opinion
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 17:48   #4
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
Re: Engine problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philtadd View Post
........ I eliminated the tank by running from a can of clean diesel same thing happens again. I am now at a loss as to what it can be............
Was the can of diesel gravity fed directly to the injector pump i.e. did it bypass the lift pump?

If you did not gravity fed it, try that to help determine where the problem lies. If it runs OK in one spot, keep moving the can back until the problem area is isolated.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 19:31   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: Engine problem

When you have a persnickety air leak in a diesel system like this you can spend hours and hours trying this and that and, you might get lucky and find the right bit or you might not. Been there done that.

The best way for me to find and diagnose one of these is to start at one end of the system and work my way back. Meaning:

Get a very clean container like a small fuel jug or even a plastic bottle and fill it with clean, fresh diesel. Get a new, clean piece of fuel hose, drop it in the jug and connect the other end to the input side of the secondary filter IE the one on the engine block just before the injector pump. Make sure the hose is full of fuel and is submersed in the fuel in the jug. Crank engine and run for a while. If it runs then the problem is farther upstream, if it doesn't then you have found the area with the problem. There would be a leak in the secondary filter or the lines to the pump or the pump itself.

If the engine runs at step one then move back to the next point in the system, connect the jug and run the engine again. Keep moving upstream in the fuel supply system until you reach a point where the engine sucks air and you have isolated where in the system you have the problem.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 20:27   #6
Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,223
Re: Engine problem

Hey Philtadd, does your fuel return line go back to the tank or only into the top of the engine mounted CAV filter. If the line returns to the tank, read no further but if its at a dead end on the top of the filter housing then the engine has no hope of expelling any air that occurs anywhere in the entire fuel system, even from your newly serviced injectors.
Most engines now are self bleeding from a fitting in the supply pressure line between the lift pump and the injector pump, often with a check valve to stop drainback and to maintain case pressure.
A64pilots wise suggestion of a length of clear plastic hose is the best easily available diagnostic device for suction leaks.
skipperpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2020, 20:37   #7
Registered User
 
NYSail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island, New York
Boat: Beneteau 423 43 feet
Posts: 850
Re: Engine problem

And don’t forget to check the fuel pump..... remember there is a filter screen inside that can get blocked....
NYSail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2020, 16:54   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area (Boat Sold)
Boat: Former owner of a Valiant V40
Posts: 1,141
Re: Engine problem

Had a similar issue. Turned out my emergency fuel shutoff had inadvertently gotten nearly completely closed. Engine would run on the fuel in the filters, then starve. Fuel would slowly refill the filter and it would run again for a bit.
jamhass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2020, 23:02   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
Re: Engine problem

Sounds just like a blocked tank vent, but since you've run it from a jar, that's out.

Did you use the tank return when test running from the container, or return to the to the container?

Is it possible there's a blocked fuel return line?
jimbunyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2020, 01:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 169
Re: Engine problem

Engines cuttig out is normally caused a smalll hole that lets air in and diesel out. Put kitchen on the fuel lift pump, all of the connections iand filters. Run the engine and you you will find where the leak/leaks is/are.
Michael Cobbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2020, 01:54   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 30
Re: Engine problem

check the parts that you replaced for air leaks ie miss seated orings etc
crashley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2020, 17:25   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Re: Engine problem

Thanks everyone. It does not appear to be an air leak, more like a fuel cutoff. Taking the fuel cap off ensures that is not the tank breather, running from a clean can of fuel shows that it is not a tank blockage. The Angliech mechanism on the fuel pump which allows over fuelling for startup is working fine. The electric fuel pump has no filter and ran fine yesterday for half hour of circulating fuel through the filters and back to the tank. Looks like a blockage after 10-15 minutes at the injector pump but when I restart the engine it runs for another 5 mins. Maybe something is moving in a hose even though they are new. The search goes on!
Philtadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2020, 17:33   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area (Boat Sold)
Boat: Former owner of a Valiant V40
Posts: 1,141
Re: Engine problem

A fuel-line vacuum gauge such as available on Racor filters can help with diagnosis, especially if you have rubber hoses which might collapse.
jamhass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2020, 23:21   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
Re: Engine problem

Did you use the tank return when test running from the container, or return to the to the container?
jimbunyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2020, 01:05   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Re: Engine problem

I would have run the spill pipe back to the container, the electric lift pump can shift a pint in 20secs. There is a good flow through the spill pipe. The pipe normally goes to the tank and yesterday I checked the flow rate at the pump when the engine was cold and after it had stopped, no change. I also ran the pump for 30 minutes just going straight from and to the tank with only the pre pump filter in use. Good flow all the time so not the pump faltering. I put grips on the hose to constrict it and give the pump some pressure to work against.
Philtadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Xantrex Monitor Problem OR Battery bank problem? svstrider Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 26-12-2011 20:08
Battery-Charging Regulator Problem ? MasterVolt Problem ? RJV Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 18 06-11-2011 22:53
Engine Problem After Running OK for Awhile Wayward Engines and Propulsion Systems 13 21-06-2009 10:48
Engine Shut-Off Problem '03 Volvo Weyalan Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 16-06-2009 15:28
engine mount bolt problem drinky Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 21-05-2008 04:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.