Engine blues - volvo penta

[a64pilot]

Just I would not deck the head unless absolutely necessary, that can cause a lot of issues on its own.

It was fresh water in the engine so you can pretty much forget salt water from the exhaust.
Overheating is very prone to warp or crack a head, and a blown head gasket or cracked head is a very good way to get “air” into a cooling system, air can come in just as water can go out. Not all blown gaskets are obvious.
Make sure your cylinders are dry and oil them while you take the head to a machine shop, be sure to have it magnafluxed, that checks for cracks, if not cracked check for warpage, which is a simple check done with a straight edge, the machinist has done it hundreds of times. Tell them you got water in the cylinders, they will know what to check.
If it’s not cracked or warped put it back together with a new head gasket, I’m a fan of copper coat if you can find some, a big fan. Be absolutely sure to follow the torque procedures in the manual, it’s very common to torque in two or three stages. Use chalk to mark torqued bolts, that way your certain not to miss one, chalk wipes off easily.

If the head has to be skimmed, be sure no more than absolutely necessary is taken off, and sometimes the valves have to be recessed into the head to gain clearance if the head is skimmed. Manual should help.

Try to find the copper coat, especially if the head gasket is the thin metal type.
https://www.crcindustries.com/produc...oz-401504.html
Comes in a spray can too, and I believe it’s made by several manufacturers. Silver paint is often used as silver paint is most often powered aluminum, but copper coat is better.

If you can find the blue composite head gasket that feels slick, you’ve scored a good one, don’t put anything at all on that head gasket, it’s Teflon. Not common at all though, unlikely you will.

Consider adding a temperature gauge so you can see it beginning to overheat so you can take action before the overheat alarm goes off.

[Rivatar]

my Volvo needs to be bled on the engine side of the raw water system as well as the intake side of the engine. (the fresh water system needs to be bled to obviously).

air in the engine side causes overheating and happens every time the raw water flow is disturbed, heeling, raw water pump maint. impeller change etc. the engine sides of both raw and fresh water cooling do not self prime.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Rivatar

my Volvo needs to be bled on the engine side of the raw water system as well as the intake side of the engine. (the fresh water system needs to be bled to obviously).

air in the engine side causes overheating and happens every time the raw water flow is disturbed, heeling, raw water pump maint. impeller change etc. the engine sides of both raw and fresh water cooling do not self prime.

There's something wrong there, then. They should both self-prime without you having to thing about anything. If you've had both sides emptied out you should just need to fill the fresh water system with new coolant (right to the max of the expansion tank), then run the engine for a short while to get everything in the right place. The expansion tank will have dropped right down where the coolant has been sent to all areas, and then you fill it back up again. From there the level shouldn't move. The raw water system should prime every time you start the engine. Replacing the inlet hoses with new transparent ones helps a lot here, as they tend to become opaque with age and use. I like to see exactly where and how fast the seawater is going the moment I start the engine.

[Michael Graham]

Years ago on an Atlantic crossing we discovered water in the cylinders of a Perkins which was eventually traced to holes in the copper components of the cooling system - a year earlier the owners took the sacrificial anodes off for a race and forgot to replace them.

[Manana5]

Originally Posted by t588143

which has caused seawater to partly fill the cylinders.

Thanks so much for chiming in! Just to clarify, it was not seawater in the cylinders (we tasted it, it was coolant/freshwater mix).

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Manana5

Thanks so much for chiming in! Just to clarify, it was not seawater in the cylinders (we tasted it, it was coolant/freshwater mix).

Which means it came from the head, very, very rarely it can come from the block, but that is usually damage from freezing.

[kenL]

I Have a 2003 Volvo Penta 2030 which is a Perkins Diesel which is marinzed by Volvo for marine applications. I had the exact same problem recently and here is what we found. We first thought that it was the head gasket but after removing the head we discovered that there was fresh water in the cylinders and not salt water. We then removed the heat exchanger Tank and exhaust elbow and found that the exhaust elbow was plugged and there was a hole in the exchanger tank which was allowing the coolant water and antifreeze to back up into the cylinders. Since they don't make the engine anymore the parts were ungodly expensive. 1300. for the exchanger tank, 600 for the exhaust elbow and 450 for the head gasket, water pump gasket and rubber boots on the salt water side of the heat exchanger. All is now fixed and unfortunately $4500 later we are done. When I first bought the boat a year ago I was advised to put a riser loop on the salt water side of the heat exchanger to eliminate any chance of salt water getting into the engine when the boat heels over and the intake is lower than the waterline. You might want to look into that also. Good luck.

[MicHughV]

...some things to consider....

..it is important to know if your engine is located above or below the waterline of your boat..

..this will dictate what kind of exhaust system you " should" have for your engine.

...having been down this road myself..ie, water inside the cylinders of my Volvo (located below the water line) the culprit was salt water coming back in through the inlet line system, hence thru' the engine valves into the cylinder....cooling salt water is expunged with exhaust gases....typically thru' a " waterlift" muffler box...even though my exhaust (like most exhaust systems for below the water systems) was fitted with an " air release" valve in the exhaust line, this valve had become crudded with salt residue and had become blocked.

Once the engine was switched off, air could not be released thru' the release valve and internal vacuum basically sucked new salt water in thru' the intake line which found it's way inside the engine. You must be familiar with filling a hose with water to empty a tank....holding the lower end of the hose lower than than the tank will draw water out of the tank by means of internal hose vacuum , so much the same thing here. Any remaining water in the muffler or continueing exhaust system can also be sucked back into the engine.

Compounding this problem, after removing the cylinder head I also found the cooling jacket orifices around the cylinders to be clogged up with salt residue. I can only surmise that that salt water was finding it's way in there.

Nonetheless, I cleaned out the orifices, sucked the water out of the cylinders...flushed the engine with about 4 cycles of fresh oil ( there was water in the oil as well) and lo and behold it started and ran fine.

You must remember that an engine located below the water line...even if only partially, will have the same level of water in the intake lines as the outside water.

After this experience, I made a habit of shutting off the intake valve after shutting off the engine. This entailed a trip below, but was worth the peace of mind. Off course, prior to starting it, I had to go below to open the valve again, but I never had water flooding problems again.

[DougR]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Which means it came from the head, very, very rarely it can come from the block, but that is usually damage from freezing.

No, it doesn't mean that it came from the head....the head is just one of the possibilities that needs to be checked.

As I pointed out in post #7, the head needs to be checked, but there is also the possibility that the overheat caused a crack in the aluminum casting which houses the heat exchanger, exhaust manifold and expansion tank. If cracked, this can allow coolant to move from the HE or expansion tank into the exhaust manifold and then into the cylinders. This housing needs to be pressure checked!

Read today's post from kenL.....similar scenario with a very similar engine...... cracked HE/ expansion tank casting allowed coolant into the cylinders.

DougR

[a64pilot]

Yes I guess it could also come from the heat ex. If it were cracked.
That ought to be simple to find out, just a simple radiator pressure test should confirm the integrity of the heat ex. If it holds pressure it’s good of course.
Your going to have to isolate the heat ex from the engine to test though.
A radiator shop should be able to test also, but they are going the way of TV repair shops I’m afraid.

[Manana5]

Originally Posted by kenL

I Have a 2003 Volvo Penta 2030 which is a Perkins Diesel which is marinzed by Volvo for marine applications. I had the exact same problem recently and here is what we found. We first thought that it was the head gasket but after removing the head we discovered that there was fresh water in the cylinders and not salt water. We then removed the heat exchanger Tank and exhaust elbow and found that the exhaust elbow was plugged and there was a hole in the exchanger tank which was allowing the coolant water and antifreeze to back up into the cylinders. Since they don't make the engine anymore the parts were ungodly expensive. 1300. for the exchanger tank, 600 for the exhaust elbow and 450 for the head gasket, water pump gasket and rubber boots on the salt water side of the heat exchanger. All is now fixed and unfortunately $4500 later we are done. When I first bought the boat a year ago I was advised to put a riser loop on the salt water side of the heat exchanger to eliminate any chance of salt water getting into the engine when the boat heels over and the intake is lower than the waterline. You might want to look into that also. Good luck.

Funny you should post this because I think this is exactly what happened to us as well. We tested the heat exchanger yesterday by plugging the water out-hole and pouring water into the in-hole with a hose. It leaked through the exhaust elbow. So I think we have found the issue. We also brought the head to a professional shop to test for cracks and we should have their feedback by tomorrow.

[sailah]

They make a device specifically for pressurizing the coolant system. I have one for chasing a similar issue and it worked great. Works to find any leaks like hose clamps, bad hoses. I let mine sit at 15 psig for 5 min. Might be worth testing after you fix HX for overall cooling system integrity.

https://www.amazon.com/Stant-12270-C...coolant&sr=8-9

[drcat]

If you find the leaking problem is with the heat exchanger and the Volvo Penta part is expensive, check out this co as they may make an aftermarket version for your engine at a fraction of the price

https://www.asap-supplies.com/engine...aust-manifolds

[guthrie101]

Put a new head gasket on. Put it back together. See how she runs. If that didnt fix it head or block is cracked. Also figure out why its overheating. Volvo penta's have a lot of people who do not like them. Go japanese when you get a new motor. That cultural isolation made them better engine engineers.

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

After 12 years of life time, my sailboat's engine was replaced with the New same Volvo Penta engine because of expensive parts and labour.

Volvo Penta's D1-20/30/40 have the same exhaust elbow, mixer. Original elbow is made with cast iron which can corrode very fast as the salty water passes through it and mix with the exhaust gas. I have replaced my new D1-30's elbow with a 316 stainless Steel elbow. I Just made the elbow like Yanmar's.

I believe that cast iron is not a proper meterial to be used for the elbow. It is corroding very fast and the salty water can't pass laminar through the pipes within the elbow. As a result, salty water splash back to the exhaust manifold which made from aluminium. Salt deposits build up at the exhaust manifold and elbow juncture in time. Usually at this point Salt water and different metals wear themselves because of the galvanic corrosion.

After I demount the elbow from the exhaust manifold, I cleared a handful of these salt deposits at the juncture and saw that the alimunium was melt at this point causing fresh water and antifreeze mixture leak from the cooling system. I was Lucky because the leak started when I start to clean the salt deposits. It was very close to leak into the exhaust manifold and then to the piston heads through the exhaust passages.

Picture shows the tiny hole at the D1-30's exhaust manifold outlet that was made by galvanic corrosion.