Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-06-2020, 08:29   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 65
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

This is a strange story. The Yanmar 2YM15, 13.5 HP, diesel engine pan bolts are far above the level of the oil in the base. If a bolt falls out completely and nothing else happens, the gasket will probably prevent any oil leak anyway. These are cast pans with considerable rigidity. The loss of one bolt will not change the pressure on the gasket by much. So, how did this engine leak so much oil so fast? It seems you have the wrong source for the leak, if it is as you describe. On the other hand, the really strange way Yanmar put in the dip stick on this engine - there is a tight curve in the dip stick tube and the tube enters the base far below the level of the oil on the side of the pan - makes it possible for the dip stick tube and fitting to the side of the pan to be the source of a pretty fast leak. The old and reliable 2GM20 engine had a proper dip stick tube and I have no clue as to why Yanmar put the nutty design on the 2YM15 model. At any rate, there is something more than a single bolt causing this rapid oil leak problem. If the pan was so loose it was about to fall off, there would be oil scattered all over the bilge. If you lost oil pressure twice, the source of your "new sound" could be internal engine damage. Such damage requires you take your oil filter apart and examine the sediment trapped in the filter paper. Use a good light and a magnifying glass. A lot of metal in the filter means your engine needs an overhaul. In the future, never run an expensive and necessary engine without an oil pressure guage in addition to a low-pressure warning light/alarm. The alarm is set far too low for running under load and so will not warn of low pressure (for load) even though damage may occur with continued running. Idiot lights are for idiots. One last thought: a "strange dinging noise" may only be something you did not notice before. You may not have had your head in the engine space for long before. These little diesels are ear-damaging loud and will make your ears ring if you listen to them for very long. Good luck with the problems.
__________________

lituya1617 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2020, 14:56   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 57
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Here's a theory....

Water got into oil either via exhaust or more likely just leaked in when your bilge got flooded. Or accumulated slowly while engine never got hot.

Oil level (actually oil and water) stayed constant until water got hot enough to boil.

When water suddenly turned to steam, the steam pressure blew an oil seal somewhere. Could be sump gasket pushed out or oil pressure sender as suggested previously.

I think more likely the leak you found is not the main one. Rear crankshaft oil leak will drip from bottom of bellhousing, probably almost impossible to see without removing the engine but I think that's probably where your oil leak is.

Of course vaporisation of the water could have caused the "oil" level to suddenly drop and maybe you lost water and lost less less oil than you thought.


One final tip since you went off topic... Paranoid unvaccinated people give measles to babies who are too young to be vaccinated. Then the baby dies. You want to kill a baby?
__________________

chris14679 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2020, 18:21   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncycastle View Post
I can't find the Yanmar 2ym15 manual online
https://www.yanmarmarine.com/theme/y...-datasheet.pdf
Svanika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 13:08   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 65
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Dermot: With all the Christian love and tolerance I can muster, I have to say that you need to either hire a full-time sailboat mechanic or give up boating. It is a hard thing to give up something you love but boating is not for those who cannot keep a hose that admits seawater into the vessel properly clamped, fail to have a functioning high water alarm in the bilge, cannot keep a bilge pumped or even know when it needs to be pumped, find mysterious water in their lube oil, and run their engine out of oil and then worry about the engine making strange noises. It would be comical but boating is deadly serious and I would not like to see you get hurt. If you think that a wet exhaust system can allow a following sea to push water through the exhaust into the engine base, you do not understand very much about exhaust systems, engines, or the plumbing involved. Ignorance is not bliss.
lituya1617 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 16:00   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 85
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Up date 1 July

Yesterday I'm removed the plastic exhaust tubing from the Elbow mixxer

There was nearly a total exhaust tube filled with water in that tube up to near the elbow mixxer

The elbow mixxer seems very clean very little carbon. and seems to new or nearly new and might even be stainless steel

I can only conclude a serious of events put enough water in the exhaust system to cause it to fill up the exhaust system with water enough that it finally got up to the elbow mixxer.
The water then went the wrong way and got into engine via exhaust valves .

I looked the entire plumbing system

The water from the valve that feeds the water pump impeeler recently replaced by me goes into the heat exchanger .

After that the intake cooling water then goes to a devise that is about one foot higher than the engine head and now warmer water seems to be pushed upwards to some sort of U bend . I think that U bend is to stop airlocks .

This devise then seems to then send the water downwards to the elbow mixxer .

This devise seems to have third pipe very narrow that goes to the stern of the boat
My best guess it is this narrow pipe allows air to get into the top of the devise if air is needed

Therefore I assume this is some sort of siphon device that is needed if the boat heels at high angles .

The elbow mixxer then enters a plastic exhaust system pipe which has two muffler boxes

The first muffler water trap devise is about three feet from engine

This muffler is mid way down the exhaust system some three feet from elbow mixxer and is nealy below the level of the engine .

The exhaust gas then goes a few feet after first muffler to the stern where there is a second exhast muffler type devise .
This stern muffler device has a large U bend to help stop the water going into the exhaust when waves hit the boats stern .
The exhaust gas exits about two inches above the sterns water level when it is a flat sea like the marina is in calm days

When engine runs the water pumps in pulses and verifies the engine with impeller etc is working correctly .

My best guess is the water some weeks earlier in boat flooding event getting to near the sump level of boat and allowed the first muffler device to become totally full of water

Then over time when engine was running the level of water in the piping system increased until the point where either wave actions hitting the stern drove more water in or running the engine at low RPM at the marina filled up the exhaust with more water

Trying to remove the plastic exhaust pipe with standing on it made a water sound that now I think was the full water in that tube being pushed further into the first muffler device below sea level
Once Plastic pipe separated from elbow mixxer every time I shook the plastic pipe the water level in the pipe would drop a few inches and the muffler would burp as it ingested this water.

Therefore I will tommorow drain all water inside all the exhaust system and hopefully this will cure the problem of water ingress into the exhaust system .

That won't help me figure out where the large oil comes from

The Yanmar switch type oil low pressure device on order will not arrive before July 15.

I don't know if this simplex oil switch system the engine uses can be converted to allow a oil pressure reader to attached to it .

Any info on where to get online a suitable not to expensive oil pressure reader with suitable adapter connection solutions that are the comparable with the Yanmars engine blocks metric thread system appreciated.

My basic plan is as before once the exhaust system water problem is sorted assume the engine will work if I oil it all up again

I will start with trying to remove the oil and water mix that remains in engine with filling the oil cap first with diesel oil and then extract the diesel oil back out by the dip stick.
hopefully this diesel oil will wash the engine clean of oil and water mix that hangs around the valves and other oil channels . Then once that now contaminated with water and diesel oil mix is removed from engine I then put in the normal 10 SAE ,40 oil in for the lubricating system .

Then I spin the engine a few turns with the stop engine engaged to drag oil up to to all the engine .
After that I start engine and look for any oil leaks around the oil switch and check water systems are working .

The logic the oil comes out the sump looks as others have said not to be likely source of the oil leak .

However signs the oil comes out from the oil filter or oil pressure switch also look be less likely

The suggestion on one post contribution that says the oil leak is more in the gear box region looks to be most likely source of the problem.
If that is the case that would then be a engine removal problem .

I have saved the original old oil filter and in due course will tear it apart to see if there is metal in it .
However with the water oil mix it is veryhard to see anything in that oil filter so it will be messy problem to find any metal in that mix .

I intend to sail to very desolate regions where there will probably be no resident mechanics
Hopefully there will be lots of fish and bird life and seals to eat .
Because of lack of civilisation support and supermarket It is best to learn to fix my own engine
So for now I will keep to do my own repairs as much as I can before I have to call in a mechanic to sort the mess out .
Its all part of the engine fix learning curve .

My sailing abilities are OK done lots of ocean stuff but mostly used outboards for my own boats or crewed on boats that had very new inboard engines that never needed any big work to get them going other than put clean fuel in them.

I don't want to break the engine but I might choose to replace it with the Yanmar 9 HP version
The 9 hp is more economical on fuel at the ~ 6 HP I would normally use
I calculate its about ~6 HP to go at speeds of about ~ 4 knots in calm seas as the most economical best cruising speed.
The propeller a 12 x 9 is better suited for the 9 HP engines .
That prop is over powered with the 13 HP engine
Also data sheets suggests the 13 hp uses best I can tell nearly double the fuel for the same ~6 HP outputs compared to 9 HP doing 4 knots

The only advantage the bigger 13 HP had is the ability to give some extra charging ability for the 80 amp alternator and still drive the boat at 4 knots

With the 9 HP engine it can become the requirement to go into neutral to divert enough HP to alternator.
Easy to do a anchor when topping up battery's but can be messy if done at sea
When there is a need for engine for travel and engine for altanator power at the same time in a situation where battery is very depleted then 9 hp can bog down .The battery demanding recharging at north of 60 amps or about 2.5 HP extra load on engine can become a issue for 9 HP engine to cope with the demands

So I think if I extract the engine to fix the oil leak it will become a engine swap episode as fuel economy on the ocean is my preference .

The big plus of the 9 HP is the engine bay has space for it and the bigger 2ym15 is very squashed into that same space so makes repairs very hard to do .

Thanks for all the inputs keep you informed as I go along.
bouncycastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 16:12   #51
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 11,073
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncycastle View Post
...............
Any info on where to get online a suitable not to expensive oil pressure reader with suitable adapter connection solutions that are the comparable with the Yanmars engine blocks metric thread system appreciated.
.......................
All the Yanmar blocks I have seen use BSP threads.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 16:35   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 85
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
All the Yanmar blocks I have seen use BSP threads.

Thanks but remain confused

I found a thread where the issue was using USA pipe standard threaded parts for oil pressure senders from online source
They claim it caused problems to the Yanmar because the Yanmar used metric threads.

I know that Yanmar like to confuse the issue so people get OEM parts rather than risk the wrong thread device

It would not surprise me the threads for Yanmar are as you indicate are BSP threads

The USA plumbing pipe standards and the BSP are thread types that can stop leaks with only the thread.

The oil pressre senders need the electrical connection to the engine block to be done via the threads.
Therefore gaskets and PTF tape can block electrical flow

Metric threads are not so good without extra help from gaskets or PTF tape in stopping leaks which is why the claim from the article about USA pipe thread didn't fit the Yanmar metric threads for oil pressure sender for me was not logical.



By ordering the OEM part I can try to find adaptors that then fit the OEM part and then add on oil pressure reading units that use alternative threads like USA pipe thread

Metric threads best I can figure are often awful thread types for many applications compared to other superior thread types

Thanks for the heads up
bouncycastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 17:42   #53
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 11,073
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncycastle View Post
Thanks but remain confused
.......
It is confusing and the closer you look, the more confusing it becomes.

However...

For the pipe threads that are found on a Yanmar engine, the following generally applies (but I'm sure there is some exception somewhere in the world ).

Yanmar conforms with the Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS).
JIS and BSP are interchange as far the pipe threads on a Yanmar engine is concerned.

BSP is widely used in the UK, Europe, Australia, much of Asia.
NPT is widely used in North America

Most likely any common engine oil pressure fitting will either BSP or NPT.

If you buy a BSP threaded sender you should be good to go.
If you buy a NPT threaded sender, you should use an adapter like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...archweb201603_


Any concern of using PTF tape is way overrated in my experience. The resistance of the threaded connection is only slightly increased unless one is using yards of tape on the threads. The threads cut though the tape sufficiently to ensure a good electrical connection, the tape simply fills the voids which never added to the electrical connection anyway. The resistance of an oil pressure sender at operating values is in the order of 100+ ohms. The tape might change this by 1 or 2 percent.

If concerned, use a pipe jointing paste or use your multimeter to measure the resistance of the sender case to the block after fitting. If it less than say 5 ohms, move onto the next job!
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 18:44   #54
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Compass 790 , 7.9 metres or 26 ft
Posts: 1,562
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

I'd be very wary of replacing your 2ym15 with a 9hp especially if you are going to remote places as you will be underpowered trying to make way against a headwind & sea.
We have a 7.9metre or 26 ft boat with an 8hp Yanmar & it basically comes to a halt against a 25 knt wind & 1 metre chop. It makes for some hair-raising moments trying to get out of small anchorages when caught in a wind change.
We are over-propped which adds to the problem admittedly & yes trying to run an 80amp alternator whilst driving wouldn't be possible if the batteries were down. We have a 55 amp one and cant do it but we have a switch in the field wire on the instrument panel to depower the alternator.
Not even sure the PTO shaft would be rated to drive that size alternator on the 9hp.

Just find your oil leak for a start
Compass790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 21:36   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 618
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Hi Dermot
You may not even need to worry about what thread is on the sender, the leak might well be from the oil filter or some as yet unidentified source and you wonít need to replace the sender. Make sure the outer rim of the oil filter doesnít make contact with the engine housing before the oring is actually engaging the sealing surface.
Take compass790ís wise advice with the lower HP engines and higher output alternators.
So far there is no reason to believe that your engine is in need of a rebuild or replacement...... but it has had 2 life threatening experiences which both need to be resolved before you cast off the lines.
Cheers, Pete.
skipperpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2020, 03:21   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 85
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

must be? every subject on YouTube type sites including all the competitors

Pure diesel for flushing engines risks to damage gaskets and rubber seals

So the advise is mix of lube oil and diesel is better

A gasoline engine in this one is run with the diesel oil and lube oil mix for few minutes to flush all the oil channels

The problem for diesel engines is even lube oil can if the engine is overfilled with lube oil cause the excess oil to get into the pistons from crank cade pressure and keep engine running even when fuel is stopped

I won't run engine with a diesel and lube oil mix I will use today to flush engine just put it in engine and extract it

Video here
Safe Engine Flush with diesel

https://youtu.be/mlI7YtOgcqI
bouncycastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2020, 20:21   #57
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Compass 790 , 7.9 metres or 26 ft
Posts: 1,562
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

Dermot engine flushing should come after fixing the oil leak & water intrusion. Engine flushing could only possibly make the oil leak worse.
SkipperPete is on the money. You have to resolve the two engine destroying issues before anything else. I'm only repeating it to emphasize the importance of resolving them.
Good luck with finding the causes of the 2 issues.
Compass790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 02:52   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 85
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

@ compass790
sorry only saw your info Monday

I removed water from exhaust system via bung in the lowwest point of system the mid position muffler

I flushed engine with exactly 2 litres of 50% mix of diesel and lube oil

I hand turned engine over with a spanner to work flush over most parts

I extracted more than 2 litres about half a cup of extra water into now coffe colored milky type oil flush

I attached the oil filter put in correct oil lube measured the dip stick did not open water cooling and tried to start engine

The starter buzzer was lit for ten seconds to heat plugs turned on to start engine and all lights went out and nothing from starter. Tried several times same thing nada
Turned by hand the engine with spanner turns as normal no signs of hydro lock or friction from seized parts .

Today I wil look this start engine issue for battery electrical connection s fuses starter motor etc and try jump start with domestic 100 amp battery.

If it is starter burned out then it's probably a three week wait for the OEM part or maybe less time to order if there is a cheaper Yanmar starter clone version .

The previous ingress of 1/2 liter water made for me mandatory to flush engine to remove the remaining water looks to be 1/2 cup before entering in good oil.

The engine doest leak oil when it isn't running making it very hard to find until engine is running

The water ingress seems to from the exhaust system backing up inside the system .

I intend to run engine with no water or impeller for s?hort periods like couple minutes let engine cool down repeat until I can find the oil leak

If I solve that then I can look to open up the water system for short runs to see if that issue has been solved

On issue of 9 HP versus 13 HP my preference is most mpg in calm waters condition St cruising in the 3.5 to 4.5 knot speeds estimated with 9 HP to be 1.25 liter per hour or 1 USA gallon per three hours .
The estimates for 2 pot 13 HP at about 50% gas looks to be closer to 2 litres per 3 hour period or about 1.5 USA gallons per hour or more than 50% extra fuel for same distance.

I could then look to gain extra short term power to exit bad bays with running in tandem to 9 HP inboard a 6 HP outboard or with electric engine power of 1.5 kilowatt which roughly equals a 6 HP gasoline outboard because the out board only supplies about 700 watts useful power after losses are factored in
bouncycastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 03:17   #59
Registered User
 
HeinSdL's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Switzerland
Boat: X-Yachts X442
Posts: 171
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

I confess I did not study all the details of the various problems but it is my understanding that water was getting in via the exhaust, getting close to entering the exhaust manifold or even got into it. Now, once water gets into the exhaust manifold you are very near to writing off the engine. Reason being that should the water get into a cylinder the inability to compress the water during the compression stroke will play havoc on everything below the piston: conrod, crankshaft, bearings, etc. Meaning, catastrophic damage.

(That's why you need to eg close the raw water inlet when cranking the engine without the engine starting. The raw water would not get ejected by the exhaust gases and would eventually drown the engine.)

It looks like a problem/collection of problems which do not call for simply starting the engine and see how it runs, you may destroy it.
HeinSdL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 10:55   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 85
Re: Ding like bell sound like pinking from diesel Yanmar 2M15 2006 version after low

@wotname

Thanks for info on the JIS thread versus the BSP. versus the NPT thread issues

Hard to beat PTF tape for stopping leaks so if in replace oil pressure switch will use the PTF tape

That info saved me hours of searching the net for this info
__________________

bouncycastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, yanmar

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recommendations for Reliable navigation lights for my ding motion30 Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 9 24-09-2019 08:52
Repairing a small "ding" in the hull daviddiscenza Construction, Maintenance & Refit 23 30-04-2018 19:18
another gelcoat question - how thick ding before filler? fstarocka Construction, Maintenance & Refit 19 18-08-2017 08:52
Re-fairing lead keel with a ding in it Connemara Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 26-11-2016 11:41
Want To Buy Pathfinder Marine Diesel Bell Housing dogs life Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 09-08-2016 14:34

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.