Diesel Overrun at Sea

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Diamond Life

I have just arrived home after a failed delivery of a 44ft racer/cruiser. After sailing up the west coast of Tasmania in fairly trying conditions (35-40 knots on the nose) we found water in the primary fuel filter and started to blow white smoke. In short we backtracked to replace both filters and fill the now low tanks. This port didn’t have facilities to drain the tank. Whilst nursing the yacht to a larger port for more extensive maintenance we experienced an overrun at 2am. We had continued to check the primary filter for contamination but nothing was noted prior to the overrun, we were running the engine to charge the batteries only.

The motor went from approximately 1600rpm to full noise (screaming) in seconds. It felt like the motor was doing around 10,000 - 15,000 rpm but we will never know the exact figure. The air intake was at the rear of the engine and after a brief try I was not going to lean over and come in contact with the now super heated engine. We were able to shut off the fuel to reduce any potential fire risk but that was all. After about 45 seconds of full noise she seized, all we could do was have extinguishers ready, try and calm down and contemplate the prospect of warm beer when we arrived in port (some two days later).

Has anyone experienced such an event at sea and what recommendations would you suggest for the cruisers out there who might not have heard of such an event.

For information we had already conducted long discussions with the owner and his mechanic prior to leaving port. This post is not about the brand of engine, the advice of the mechanic nor the type of beer we would eventually enjoy, but rather to share any similar experiences.

This was once a common event with GM Detroit diesel engines due to seizure of the unit injectors so these engines all had an emergency intake air shutdown to avoid engine destruction. Detroit diesels eventually fell out of favor and for many years the "runaway diesel " ceased to exist but then returned with the across the board introduction of exhaust gas turbochargers on small automotive and marine engines. In the worst cases the shaft inside the turbo breaks and the lubricating oil sprays into the intake manifold causing an uncontrollable overspeed, in the lesser situation the turbo seal can leak but usually there's warning indications that something is wrong i.e. excessive lube oil consumption or exhaust smoke. Was your engine turbocharged by any chance?
I'm glad to hear that no one was injured and sorry about the warm beer

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Diamond Life

I have just arrived home after a failed delivery of a 44ft racer/cruiser. After sailing up the west coast of Tasmania in fairly trying conditions (35-40 knots on the nose) we found water in the primary fuel filter and started to blow white smoke. In short we backtracked to replace both filters and fill the now low tanks. This port didn’t have facilities to drain the tank. Whilst nursing the yacht to a larger port for more extensive maintenance we experienced an overrun at 2am. We had continued to check the primary filter for contamination but nothing was noted prior to the overrun, we were running the engine to charge the batteries only.

The motor went from approximately 1600rpm to full noise (screaming) in seconds. It felt like the motor was doing around 10,000 - 15,000 rpm but we will never know the exact figure. The air intake was at the rear of the engine and after a brief try I was not going to lean over and come in contact with the now super heated engine. We were able to shut off the fuel to reduce any potential fire risk but that was all. After about 45 seconds of full noise she seized, all we could do was have extinguishers ready, try and calm down and contemplate the prospect of warm beer when we arrived in port (some two days later).

Has anyone experienced such an event at sea and what recommendations would you suggest for the cruisers out there who might not have heard of such an event.

For information we had already conducted long discussions with the owner and his mechanic prior to leaving port. This post is not about the brand of engine, the advice of the mechanic nor the type of beer we would eventually enjoy, but rather to share any similar experiences.

Can you tell us more about the engine? Make, model, turbo? etc

[fish53]

I've ridden with too many Detroits to not have seen it. Took my boot off once when a 6-71 took off on us, the boot worked.

[Montanan]

If you have a Halon fire extinguisher [or a CO2 extinguisher] use such to displace the ambient air oxygen intake of the engine.

Some vessel engine compartments have Halon fire extinguishment systems, they will work to suppress a runaway if the engine air intake is from the engine compartment. If the engine air intake is linked directly to outside the engine compartment then using Halon in the compartment will not aid in suppression of the runaway condition.

Of course one needs to use caution when using any oxygen displacement fire suppression system as you can suffocate yourself while suffocating the engine or fire.

The amount of white and black smoke derived by a runaway diesel is quite impressive, one needs to turn the vessel so as to have the smoke not overcome the persons onboard.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Diamond Life

what recommendations would you suggest for the cruisers out there who might not have heard of such an event.

[ crossposted with Montanan ]


The best way to deal with it once it occurs is to use a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher on the intake. Halon and other clean agent extinguishers will also work.

Most boats don't carry carbon dioxide fire extinguishers, because dry chemical extinguishers are more effective for their size (and are cheaper). But carbon dioxide has a number of advantages. In addition to being uniquely effective on runaway diesels, it puts out fires without making a mess or leaving a corrosive residue that affects mechanical and electrical systems. No small thing if the goal is to minimize damage and continue the voyage.

[oleman]

The accepted way to stop any engine or to put out any fire is with a CO2 fire extinguisher. Cut off the O and it can not run.
Co2 extinguisher should be on every vessel.

[CAR54]

Dating my self, the training I received in Coast Guard Engine-man school was to use CO2 to shut down a run away diesel engine. BTW they also taught us that most (not all) engines when they blow up throw parts down or out the sides of the engine block.

[wrwakefield]

A scary experience well handled. Glad to hear of no injuries other than the beer temp, Diamond Life...

As others have mentioned, if the normal fuel cut off won't stop the runaway, displacing the oxygen [using CO2, Halon, or Maus extinguishers, covering intake, etc.] will.

In our case, I would manually activate the automatic Halon fire suppression system in the engine room. If that was not available [e.g., it was already used once on an extended trip, and the engine runs away a second time...] we also carry Maus fire extinguishers [in addition to an assortment of portable halon and dry extinguishers, fire hoods, etc.]

I mention the Maus because you could bring your own with you on deliveries. [They are about the size of a D cell flashlight, or pepper grinder...] We have them because we live aboard full time and would use the Maus first because it leaves no mess to clean up. [Like a CO2 extinguisher in miniature...]



They may seem a bit pricey at US$75/ea in small quantities, but compared to the time to clean-up combined with putting the fire area out of commission until cleaned up. [e.g., engine or galley] the cost is justifiable to us.

I mention Maus in case some of you are not already familiar with them and have an interest.

US Distributor
MySailing.com article
Blog post by my Admiral which includes mention and photos of our fire suppression preparations.

May no one ever need to use any of these tactics...

Cheers! Bill

[Taipe]

Well, I used to think that blocking the air intake with a flat object right at the air filter intake housing would be enough to completely shut down all runaway diesels in short order. I understand that usually does, so preparing in advance with additional methods is more than likely for psychological comfort.

However, after seeing that method fail on the video that Montanan was kind enough to scare us with, that has me thinking about preparing in advance with a shut-off valve spliced into the crankcase breather tube and another one in place of the oil drain plug. Of course these areas might be difficult to reach with all the noise, heat and an alternator belt about to explode. So, I could do a practice drill by attempting to access these two areas with a helmet & goggles in a simulated state of sheer panic. Maybe a recording of my son's heavy metal at full blast #!*? ...naw, I think I'll pass on that last one.

[goodoldwoody]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Is this runaway problem solved in newer diesel engines on boats? If not, are there kits that can be added with an easily accessible valve to choke the air intake if needed?

Yes a run-away.
Sorry it happened to you.
Lucky it didn't blow up!
Funny Tasmania is a place to get that sort of thing. Pounding away to Windward with the engine running. The pounding stirs up water (condensation from bottom of tank). Rough conditions engine working hard not getting enough cooling and overheats you shut off fuel then it starts running on sump oil. Best way to stop it is a big chunk of rag or towel down the air intake throat.
Maybe new engine coming.
Maybe "gentleman sailing" downwind in heavy conditions save engine.

After encountering almost the same problem on a lee shore (Tasmania 50+ kts) but I didn't lose my engine. I installed a second primary filter and bypass so I could change over with the engine running and empty bowl later. As a standard procedure when I do my oil change I suck out the bottom of tank. Of course you have to keep checking the filter bowl and the engine when your life may depend on it. I think when it's that rough the engine can't get enough cooling water I think it sucks foam from under the boat causing it to overheat and ideal conditions for a runaway.

It's great when everything works properly! Scary otherwise.

Good luck with that engine.

Cheers Woody

[Diamond Life]

Originally Posted by goodoldwoody

Yes a run-away.

Sorry it happened to you.

Lucky it didn't blow up!

Funny Tasmania is a place to get that sort of thing. Pounding away to Windward with the engine running. The pounding stirs up water (condensation from bottom of tank). Rough conditions engine working hard not getting enough cooling and overheats you shut off fuel then it starts running on sump oil. Best way to stop it is a big chunk of rag or towel down the air intake throat.

Maybe new engine coming.

Maybe "gentleman sailing" downwind in heavy conditions save engine.



After encountering almost the same problem on a lee shore (Tasmania 50+ kts) but I didn't lose my engine. I installed a second primary filter and bypass so I could change over with the engine running and empty bowl later. As a standard procedure when I do my oil change I suck out the bottom of tank. Of course you have to keep checking the filter bowl and the engine when your life may depend on it. I think when it's that rough the engine can't get enough cooling water I think it sucks foam from under the boat causing it to overheat and ideal conditions for a runaway.



It's great when everything works properly! Scary otherwise.



Good luck with that engine.



Cheers Woody

Woody,

Thanks, we didn’t use the engine to windward in the blow, only after across the top of the front. We had a large amount of water across the decks and we believe it entered through the breather on the stern. We had already gaffa taped a cover for this as it was obviously exposed.
Always in remote areas and always 2 am....

[Diamond Life]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

A scary experience well handled. Glad to hear of no injuries other than the beer temp, Diamond Life...



As others have mentioned, if the normal fuel cut off won't stop the runaway, displacing the oxygen [using CO2, Halon, or Maus extinguishers, covering intake, etc.] will.



In our case, I would manually activate the automatic Halon fire suppression system in the engine room. If that was not available [e.g., it was already used once on an extended trip, and the engine runs away a second time...] we also carry Maus fire extinguishers [in addition to an assortment of portable halon and dry extinguishers, fire hoods, etc.]



I mention the Maus because you could bring your own with you on deliveries. [They are about the size of a D cell flashlight, or pepper grinder...] We have them because we live aboard full time and would use the Maus first because it leaves no mess to clean up. [Like a CO2 extinguisher in miniature...]







They may seem a bit pricey at US$75/ea in small quantities, but compared to the time to clean-up combined with putting the fire area out of commission until cleaned up. [e.g., engine or galley] the cost is justifiable to us.



I mention Maus in case some of you are not already familiar with them and have an interest.



US Distributor

MySailing.com article

Blog post by my Admiral which includes mention and photos of our fire suppression preparations.



May no one ever need to use any of these tactics...



Cheers! Bill

Bill,

Thanks, I will definitely look into this product for my own vessel.

[wesevans]

Engine should have a manual shut down air intake is best

[coastalexplorer]

Does activation the decompression lever on an engine that is already running cause mechanical damage?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Taipe

Well, I used to think that blocking the air intake with a flat object right at the air filter intake housing would be enough to completely shut down all runaway diesels in short order. I understand that usually does, so preparing in advance with additional methods is more than likely for psychological comfort.

However, after seeing that method fail on the video that Montanan was kind enough to scare us with, that has me thinking about preparing in advance with a shut-off valve spliced into the crankcase breather tube and another one in place of the oil drain plug. Of course these areas might be difficult to reach with all the noise, heat and an alternator belt about to explode. So, I could do a practice drill by attempting to access these two areas with a helmet & goggles in a simulated state of sheer panic. Maybe a recording of my son's heavy metal at full blast #!*? ...naw, I think I'll pass on that last one.

These things look smart for small fires. Not sure that 9 seconds of discharge in the general direction of the air intake is going to be enough to stop a runaway.