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Old 04-07-2021, 20:57   #31
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by OutOfControl View Post
Relax garyfdl,
I never said I cracked the secret formula. I was just sharing my recipe.
Also, I prefer to use a one gallon gas container to mix it up which also makes it easier to pour.
It actually takes less time to make than it did for you to post your comment
LOL Why do you think I'm not relaxed? And no, you can't mix it up in less time than it took me to type my reply.

You are certainly entitled to mix up whatever you want, and pour it into your engines. As for me? Common sense tells me not to trust 'home made engine additives' I come across on the internet. While I'm not a Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, $50 USD a gallon for the 'good stuff' - developed by chemists (not some guy in a shed) and subject to professional manufacturing and quality control (not some guy in a shed), is not going to break me.
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Old 05-07-2021, 16:55   #32
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
yes to all the above.....being a new boat (to you).....diesel engines require very little....clean fuel and clean oil....

from experience, I can tell you that the inside of a fuel tank is not a very friendly place...
I have taken diesel fuel tanks apart, and invariably, the bottom is coated with a black slimy substance.....the reasons for this is many and varied. For this reason, most diesel fuel tank intake lines are generally set at 1-2" above the bottom of the tank so as not to suck this detritus up. Sucking out the old fuel does not really help if you can't also clean the rest of it, which would require opening the fuel tank inspection plates.

The best (and simplest) tool to ensure clean fuel is to mount a see-thru' diesel fuel/water separator filter between the engine and the tank. This way you can visually check the filter for water and other tainted fuel. Racor makes a very good one...the 500fg model.....they run about $150-200....and worth every dime...you'll have to bleed the system after you install this, but it is a relatively simple procedure.

Your engine is unlikely to burn much more than 1/3-1/2 gal/hour at cruising rpm...so in a 100 mile trip....assuming a 5 knot speed....you might burn 10 gallons of diesel...that's not very much....but it's likely to be a 2 day trip for you....if all else fails, you still have sail power...
Thanks for your recommendation.
The existing external fuel filter is an old Fram Marine filter that they do not make anymore.
So I am looking to get the Racor Turbine 500 MA 10 Micron filter.
It has a clear bowel but also a metal shield so you can legally put it in the engine room.

The engines manual says it will consume 0.7 GPH at 2500 Ė 3000 RPM (cruising speed). So your estimate was very good.

I expect my trip will take 2 days.
We will be sailing most of the way but will motor for 5 hours straight to clean out the engine.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:12   #33
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I would suggest that if it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

Assuming that the engine runs as it should, I would drive the boat to that new marina and be prepared to change the oil and filter within a few minutes of arriving. Use a quality diesel rated oil of the viscosity recommended by the manufacturer.

Having spare fuel filters along is a safety precaution.

I would not trust a product named "Mystery" anything and I would not fill my fuel filter with anything but fresh diesel fuel.
I am assuming you mean if the engine works just do the normal maintenance and do not uses these products.

In a way I kind of agree with you, after all diesel engines are very robust.
But since the engine has not been run hard for the past 9 years I think a little internal cleaning is due.

As to the other maintenance items like flushing the coolant system these are normal maintenance items that should be done about ever 5 years but has not been done in the past 9 years and are overdue.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:21   #34
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Graham View Post
4. Check to see if the diesel fuel in the tank is good or bad.
I do not expect any issues because the fuel tank is full and the PO treated the fuel at the end of last season, but I want to make sure.
At this point the engine has been running for 1-2 hours with new fuel filter.
I will remove the external fuel filter and check for contamination.
IE water, fuel bog etc.
If I find any issues I will drain the tank and replace with new fuel.
Not a bad idea to do this, but if there is scum in the tank, you probably wonít be able to detect it after running the engine at the dock or running in and out of the marina. It tends to become dislodged and cause filter clogging issues only when the boat is really rolling and pitching around in rough conditions. Your tank may be fine, and if the PO regularly treated with biocide, thatís a good sign. But if you want to be more confident that there wonít be fuel problems on your trip, you need to have a look inside the tank, or at least agitate and suck off the bottom with a higher-flow pump of some sort.

Hopefully you wonít have any issues at all. And if filters do start clogging, youíll already have practice changing them and bleeding the fuel system so you can do it underway if you have to.

Congrats on your new boat, and have a good trip!
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:44   #35
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Not a bad idea to do this, but if there is scum in the tank, you probably wonít be able to detect it after running the engine at the dock or running in and out of the marina. It tends to become dislodged and cause filter clogging issues only when the boat is really rolling and pitching around in rough conditions. Your tank may be fine, and if the PO regularly treated with biocide, thatís a good sign. But if you want to be more confident that there wonít be fuel problems on your trip, you need to have a look inside the tank, or at least agitate and suck off the bottom with a higher-flow pump of some sort.

Hopefully you wonít have any issues at all. And if filters do start clogging, youíll already have practice changing them and bleeding the fuel system so you can do it underway if you have to.

Congrats on your new boat, and have a good trip!
Completely agree with you just running at the dock will not prove the diesel tank is clean.
I was thinking about setting up a fuel polishing system but I want to move my boat to my marina this month, so I will not have time to do a complete cleaning.

I will be moving the boat in good weather (just 2 days) and will sail most of the way. If the filter does get clogged I will have spare filters and a few gallons of clean diesel in a fuel can that I will use to motor into my dock.

If for some reason all that does not work, I also have a contract with a local boat towing company who can tow me into my dock if needed.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:50   #36
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by Jetx View Post
If you can access the inside of the fuel tank to inspect/clean it, it would be good to do that before leaving. If you canít see inside, but can find a way to get a suction hose down to the bottom of the tank (say through the fuel gauge sender hole) you can suck out the old fuel while swishing the hose around to get an indication of possible bug or other solids contamination.

Also, you can do part of your sea trial while in the slip. You donít want to run at WOT while tied to the dock (as engine would likely be overloaded), but you can run in-gear for a few hours at various RPMs and monitor temperature, cooling water flow, smoke or steam in exhaust etc. At least at the dock, if it shows signs of overheating, makes worrisome noises, or you blow a hose, you can shut down or cool down and wonít need a tow . Then change and inspect oil as you planned.

You may also need to flush the fresh water circuit more than once of you see any signs of rust or foreign material after running for a while.

Finally, check the exhaust elbow for carbon buildup or rust/salt blockage.

EDIT: And as stated above, DO NOT put Sea Foam in the filter bowl! Itís mostly Naptha or white gas, so youíd be putting a much more volatile fuel directly into a compression-ignition engine. Good chance something will go bang in a very expensive manner. Itís fine to use Sea Foam mixed in the fuel tank at the recommended doses, but donít run straight sea foam in a diesel.
I am going to second the above, and advise you to be very careful about your list. While your list is comprehensive and stuff you should do at some point, I think doing all this just before you start a trip is a recipe for a major problem. You need clean fuel and you need a clean cooling system. If you do not execute all these actions just right--you will have a failure. I think inspecting the tank for globs is good. If you are experienced with changing filters and have the right one (not too restrictive) and have done it before, go ahead. But I would say you need to have some time in the chop before I would start out on a long trip. I would be careful about additives as mentioned. If you put a powerful biocide in your tank right after you change the filters and take off on a trip--well you can see what the risk is. Don't ask how I learned this.
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:05   #37
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Graham View Post
This year I purchased a 1980 Watkins 27 with a Westerbeke 20B TWO 18HP Engine.

I was thinking I would
1. Change the oil / oil filter and also put the recommended about to MMO into the oil.
2. Start the engine and let it warm up.
3. Shut down the engine and remove the external fuel filter.
4. Check the filter to see the fuel has any fuel bug issues.
5. Fill the fuel filter about 1/3 with Sea Foam.
6. Start the engine again and run for 1-2 mins to get the sea foam into the injectors and cylinders
7. Put the recommended amount of Sea Foam into the fuel tank.
8. The next day start the engine and do the 100 mile trip with 5 hours of running the engine at 2,500 RPMs (cruising speed)
9. Once I arrive change the oil and see if any sludge is removed.

What do you think of my plan?

PS Before the trip I will
1. Back flush the Raw water system
2. Flush and replace the coolant.
3. Opening up the end cap on the heat exchange and look for any broken off impeller blades.
4. Check all the raw water hoses for broken impeller blades.
5. Replace the impeller.
6. Install new Zinc
7. New Transmission fluid.
8. Install new external and engine mounted fuel filters
9. Replace the thermostat.

I would start by draining a bit of oil to look for water.

You may need to open the heat exchanger to clear out old zincs and impeller parts.

If you really go for broke, have an oil sample analyzed. Probably overkill.

Make sure your engine instruments work.

Make sure the alternator is working and under control. Possibly load test batteries.

Long term, we added a 1 micron absolute fuel filter/polisher. We also added a 1 micron crank case bypass filter. Both extend life and reliability.
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:19   #38
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

I had an ancestor who actually sold snake oil, so I can recognize it when I see it. My jury is still out on Seafoam. The extra volatility in the diesel Seafoam may make your engine start easier at the expense of wearing it out faster. I did run a half of can of Seafoam through a gas powered genset that was running by crap, and it did no good--I had to take the carb apart and clean the ethanol fuel crap out of the orifices.

It sounds to me like the previous owner took better care of the engine than most. I'd just untie the dock lines and move the boat, carrying extra fuel filters just in case. Watch the temperature closely, but run it hard and you will clean out the carbon deposits in less than an hour. As far as polishing the fuel goes, when you run your engine the majority of the fuel goes through both filters and back into the tank via the return lines. If you burn up half a tank of fuel, you have polished the rest.
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Old 09-07-2021, 13:29   #39
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

All good advice. My two cents:


1. Offshore travel often stirs up sediment in the tank causing filter blockage.


2. For cleaning the freshwater loop I have used phosphoric acid. The Muriatic gives off chlorine gas which will aggressively eat your heat exchangers and engine block. The phosphoric costs more and is a bit hard to find but is very kind to the metals will still aggressively removie deposits.
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Old 10-07-2021, 06:39   #40
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
I had an ancestor who actually sold snake oil, so I can recognize it when I see it. My jury is still out on Seafoam.
Two firsthand accounts of SeaFoam that may be useful:

1. We used to make the annual pilgrimage on Harleys from Ohio to the Sturgis (SD) bike rally. My wife rode her own on a measly 883 that she literally had to run wide open much of the time and the small gas tank meant we were stopping often to refuel. We (yes crazy) carried a small jerry can in my saddle bag that would get us to the next fuel station. Quite predictably the engine ran hot with oil temps right at the upper limit so we were looking for anything that might lower temps and extend mileage - enter SeaFoam.

I bought a couple cans and we did some experiments running one tank with SF and the next without - lather rinse repeat. The results? No difference whatsoever - same fuel mileage, same oil temps, same speed/power..no improvement whatsoever with SF.

2. My friend has a place in N. Eleuthera Bahamas with a small fishing boat with I think a 75 hp Merc outboard. During one visit we found that the inner liner of the fuel hose was deteriorated and sent a bunch of junk into the engine - even through the fuel filter and into the carb. We changed the hose and it still ran but very poorly - just enough for us to make the 1.5 hr trip to Spanish Wells to have the carb overhauled.

Once we got there the shop told us an overhaul was going to take a couple days (Bahamas time) ---OR--- we could try to run a few cans of SeaFoam through it. I was fairly perturbed my friend chose the SeaFoam idea as the wind/raing had kicked up and we had a miserable return trip ahead of us with a sputtering and at times barely running single engine. We headed out anyway choosing to take the shoreline all the way back. Lo and behold - about a half hour into the bruising journey the engine came completely to life and ran like new! All things considered - have to think SF had at least something to do with cleaning out the Carb....so take that for what it's worth.

Performance enhancer - not so much. Solvent/cleaner? Maybe so!
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:58   #41
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

1/ when you pull the ht exchanger to clean out any errant pieces of raw water impelller , plan to replace the end cap gaskets. 2/ a long thin metal knitting needle is a good tool for pushing pieces of junk out of the ht exch tubes.
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Old 10-07-2021, 12:17   #42
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

I have used sea foam in gas and diesel engines with good results.
I have used mmo in diesel and gas(especially 2 stroke) with good results, but a little more smoke produced.
I have also used Lucas in gas and diesel, this is my preference with diesel. I saw the most notable improvements in smooth running and mileage.
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Old 10-07-2021, 23:19   #43
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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I assumed MMO to be the lube oil additive ďmolybdenum disulphideĒ. If thats what Captain Graham meant, itís one of the only things Iíd trust in the lube oil.... maybe the only thing.

I am with 'skipperpete'. Over the years I have used three different oil additives containing molybdenum disulphide (MolySlip (UK, Hong Kong), MolyBlackGold (USA) and LiquiMoly SO2 Oil Treatment (Germany, Australia)) in either diesel or petrol engines or both. Engines thus treated start easy, run smoother and run cooler, even after weeks or months of not being used.



Plus: I have had two instances where diesel engines on yachts lost all their oil (for different reasons) and in both cases, because the oil had been treated with molybdenum disulphide additives, the engines not only got me back to port (two hours motoring in one case) but, after fixing the leaks and refilling with oil, carried on working for years with no apparent after-affects.


Molybdenum disulphide adheres to all friction surfaces and acts as a super-lubricant.


I have no experience with MMO but, reading the sales blurb on the website, it sounds more like a cleaning agent than a super lubricant. If it contains molybdenum disulphide then why did they not mention it?
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Old 11-07-2021, 00:09   #44
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

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Originally Posted by alitaptap View Post
...........


Molybdenum disulphide adheres to all friction surfaces and acts as a super-lubricant.


I have no experience with MMO but, reading the sales blurb on the website, it sounds more like a cleaning agent than a super lubricant. If it contains molybdenum disulphide then why did they not mention it?
I think it is 99.9% certain that MMO does not contain molybdenum disulphide given it's origins and principle uses.

While much is written about MMO, the wikipedia article is a good primer (IMO).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Oil

But apparently it can get into your fuel / oil all by itself - now that is worth the moniker "Mystery" . See here for more details to this claim

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...16X01610&key=1
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Old 11-07-2021, 10:29   #45
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Re: Diesel Engine - Sea Foam and Marvel Mystery oil

Hello Graham,

I have been in your position.

As you know, being prepared for problems at sea is more than the Scouts motto. If something happens at sea, are you ready to deal with it - and QUICKLY? In other words, if your filter becomes clogged when under way I suggest that you have already installed valves and a second filter in parallel to the original so all you have to do is reach in and switch the flow of fuel over to the second filter. This is what most expensive vessels have on them - for good reason, and it is quite inexpensive to install.

Engine failures almost never present themselves at a convenient time. It is often when under bad conditions, a risky location, or while coming in to a dock etc. You cannot afford that delay in resolving the problem. Yes, been there as well.

Also, you do not have to change a filter at a certain time frame as if you are a robot. The issue is to know when it is needed. That is easily solved. The honest Cummins diesel in my truck had a sticker on the air intake filter that said something like "Only change the filter when you need to, as shown by this indicator". The indicator was a simple vacuum gauge that told me that there was no need to change the filter UNLESS it was clogged. You can do the same thing by installing a T in your fuel line and installing a $10 vacuum gauge - like I have on my boat. Ridiculourly cheap solution. Wanna test it? Just close the preceeding shut-off fuel gauge from the tank and the gauge climbs immediately. It makes no sense to just change a filter out of fear or habit - often a messy, uncomfortable and inconvenient process - when it is wasteful and simply not needed.

Also - buy an inexpensive industrial, fuel transfer filter module - with visual bowl - and install it ahead of all others. These are large filters often used to filter fuel for big machines when transferring fuel - and have filters down to the 10 micron degree. The large-area filters take forever to be filled, are inexpensive and will stop you from the needless and wasteful changing of expensive Racor filters etc. It does not impede any fuel flow. If it is good for a million dollar farm or earth-moving machine it should be good enough for you! In Canada, Princess Auto sell these for about $70, so you can probably buy a complete transfer filter module for about the same price as one or two Racor filters and you will probably never have to buy another Racor again!

Lastly, if use an additive, use the one that is actually made by a fuel injector company, that does not even need to be advertised and is therefore free of trendy advertising BS, and is used universally by trucking and other major companies - Stanadyne.

Good luck,
RR.
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