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Old 23-06-2020, 21:40   #16
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
V-P = Volvo Penta

As a generalisation a Volvo mechanic will only use Volvo parts (as he makes a lot of money on the parts). E.G a Volvo part number bearing might be $200 and the exact same bearing from a bearing shop could be $20.

Also the Volvo mechanic is unlikely to think outside the box if he can't source parts from V-P.

I don't know about CA but in Australia you can find car/truck/tractor/agricultral mechanics that can fix stuff all sorts of older machinery.
Ah, of course. Makes a lot of sense, thanks!
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Old 23-06-2020, 21:45   #17
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

This forum is a veritable fountain of misinformation. I'm certain most of the responders have never had one apart. Those transmissions are weird.
I'm in San Pedro, I took my trans to a dealer in Costa Mesa, They said they don't work on those little, obsolete engines
tried Tom Smith/Bay Marine in Signal Hill, he's been in business there forever, He said there were no more gears (the clutch lining is bonded to the inside of the gear) available, but he would sell me a new Volvo engine for 12K + installation.
Your best bet is to find a good used one $1500, a rebuilt one fron Sound Marine $6000 or run it till it dies and stick in a new Westerbeke.
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Old 24-06-2020, 02:01   #18
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

I have had one of those apart a few times. You can get new lining bonded to the gears and have it machined.
Some of the earlier ones did not have linings, but a bronze sliding cone instead.
I tried fitting machined bronze female faces to our cones, but they did not last long.


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Old 24-06-2020, 09:05   #19
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

;-)



An exhaust elbow on a M7A cost me, per weight, way more than a pound of BEST Spanish ham.


For those who do not know what a Spanish ham is, substitute ham with a six-pack of Mumm.


Now, this is just a pound of cast iron, eh?


Even worse, the one time I took a real V-P authorized mechanic outside Sweden (in NZ) the guy nearly killed my boat and my crew (he installed a wrong filter and it cracked - in AUS on approaches to Darwin lock).


So ... be smart, measure the missing part, search the net, buy a tractor after market equivalent and fix it yourself (or else hire a plain joe good diesel mechanic that fixes clunkers day in day out)


b.
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Old 24-06-2020, 09:30   #20
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

Obviously you have smarter shops down there. Maybe 'cause their smarts drain down to their brains instead of out their backsides.
I have an input shaft/forward cone that I would like to get repaired to keep in spares. Somewhere on line, maybe here on CF I have seen the drawing (in Swedish) of the dimensions, but can't seem to locate it.
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Old 24-06-2020, 11:12   #21
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

I give up, can't get the drawing to attach.
Anyway, boden36 knows what he's talking about, the others, not so much.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MS gearbox brake lining 854212[1].P01.1.A (7) (1).pdf (140.0 KB, 23 views)
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Old 24-06-2020, 12:24   #22
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

At the risk of asking a ridiculous question. is that clutch drawing applicable to the MS2B gear?
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Old 24-06-2020, 12:26   #23
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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I’d find new mechanics

If someone says “run it till she dies” that translates to “I’m a idiot”
x2. Running it until it dies likely removes any hope of repair. And letting it die may well happen at the worst possible moment. Are you willing to take that risk? With your boat? With other boats?
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Old 24-06-2020, 13:54   #24
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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Obviously you have smarter shops down there. Maybe 'cause their smarts drain down to their brains instead of out their backsides.
.............
Yeah, maybe.....but probably not

It is all about perspective and who to look for. Big business mechanics and young mechanics can only reliably (and economically) repair machinery by replacing worn/broken parts with new ones. If you can't get a new part, then get a new machine.

Fixing older and no longer supported machinery requires a different approach which can be summarised by "if it was made be man, it can be fixed by man".. Although hunting down the right man is often difficult and time consuming!

The fixers of old machinery are usually old guys who have have been fixing stuff for a long time and get to know a network of others who have specialist skills. They form informal networks or sometimes even formal networks that have names that contains words like "antique or preservation or historical or vintage". They have old faded copies of old drawing and they make the parts that can't be bought. They live in small towns and rural communities.

Some of the best are South Africans who lived through the Apartheid era. When the rest of the world refused to supply new machinery or parts to SA for decades, they were forced to keep repairing what they already had. They became experts in repairing without replacing!
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Old 24-06-2020, 14:30   #25
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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At the risk of asking a ridiculous question. is that clutch drawing applicable to the MS2B gear?

No.

The MS2B transmission is totally different from the MS and MSB transmissions and none of the parts are interchangeable.
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Old 24-06-2020, 14:37   #26
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

I have the drawing of the clutch lining on my computer, but I'm too effing old to figure out how to post in on the forum.

Running it till it quits will only end up wearing out the lining, which is already wearing out. As to other parts being common, there are 8 unique caged needle bearings in the counter shafts which can be replaced with custom made oilite bushings -simple, I've done it, and the gears are only used in reverse, and there is a unique caged roller bearing on the 4" dia reduction gear, which probably won't wear out.
Which brings us back to the linings, which are an integral part of the input and output shafts.
If anybody knows who can reline them, please let me know.
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Old 24-06-2020, 16:40   #27
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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I have the drawing of the clutch lining on my computer, but I'm too effing old to figure out how to post in on the forum.

.........
There is an attached pdf file on your previous post (#21). It opened OK for me although I couldn't understand the language (presumably Swedish)!
Is that the drawing you are now referring to?
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Old 24-06-2020, 17:13   #28
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

That's the one.
Maybe I should stick to MS DOS.

What I don't understand is why they didn't design it with replaceable brass rings like synchro rings in a car trans.
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Old 24-06-2020, 18:16   #29
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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I have the drawing of the clutch lining on my computer, but I'm too effing old to figure out how to post in on the forum.

Running it till it quits will only end up wearing out the lining, which is already wearing out. As to other parts being common, there are 8 unique caged needle bearings in the counter shafts which can be replaced with custom made oilite bushings -simple, I've done it, and the gears are only used in reverse, and there is a unique caged roller bearing on the 4" dia reduction gear, which probably won't wear out.
Which brings us back to the linings, which are an integral part of the input and output shafts.
If anybody knows who can reline them, please let me know.
Wait, so If I was almost exclusively running the engine in forward, will I still have done much damage? It’s hard to tell from what I’m reading what the difference is between the reverse gear and the rest of the transmission... the main engine sump had plenty of oil.
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Old 24-06-2020, 18:46   #30
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Re: Did not refill oil in MSB Reverse Gear

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Wait, so If I was almost exclusively running the engine in forward, will I still have done much damage? It’s hard to tell from what I’m reading what the difference is between the reverse gear and the rest of the transmission... the main engine sump had plenty of oil.
There is only one transmission which as you know is bolted onto the engine.

It has a variety of names:
Reduction Gear
Reverse Gear
Transmission
Marine Gear
Gearbox

They all refer to the box bolted onto the engine and do the same thing which is take the drive from the crankshaft push it through a clutch and a set of gears to reduce the RPM by a factor of 2 or 3 or so.

There is usually a forward clutch and a reverse clutch and often the reverse ratios are a little different to forward ratios.

The clutches can be of various types - cone; friction plate etc.

In neutral, neither clutch is engaged but when you select either forward or reverse, that particular clutch is engaged and the gearbox output shaft spins accordingly.

Almost always they have their own sump.
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