Damaged from non use?

[Island Time O25]

As far as swapping engines is concerned my swap on a 28 footer went from easy peasy half a day job to 3-5 days job just because the mounts were aligned for Universal and I was putting in a Yanmar. I figured since the Yamnar was already checked out and approved by my marine pro buddy and I was getting that Yanmar for all of $700 I'd rather reconfigure the mounts than look for a decent used Universal (which still would run me into a few thousands to buy if in good shape). The job, while not the most appealing or desirable, turned out to be not too difficult since I had some previous experience dealing with epoxy work on my previous boats. Altogether this swap ended up costing me all of $1,500 including the $700 for the engine and considering that I initially paid $1,500 for that boat in the first place - 3 almost brand new sails (which alone justified my decision as I already had access to that $700 Yanmar), everything else in good shape except the cabin floor which I will be dealing with in the Spring, I think I have a good solid boat for short money to take to Florida via ICW to use as a sailing base/crash pad while on my frequent visits there. I figured the money I'm spending on hotels and airbnbs can be put toward dockage fees instead. Comes out about even if I get there at least once every 1.5-2 months for 4-5 days each visit. And I'll be way ahead if I can get there once a month for 3-4 days, which I used to do before. It is all in your mindset - if you think the boat ownership is expensive - it'll be expensive. If you come up with ways to offset these expenses (liveaboard, using the boat as a hotel/motel alternative, timesharing it, etc) it will become much more affordable.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatbod

30-40hrs may be on the light side of work required for a repower. Get a firm quite if you decide to proceed.

Better yet, shop around and get several quotes. The whole "it's sat idle for 4yrs and is no good now" would really ring my B.S. detector.

Normally I would agree with you. However, what we don't know and the marina may is the reason the yacht has been lifted out. Was it because the engine needed replacing and the previous owner never actually got around to it? Still I wold definitely try the old engine first before dropping a new or even better a second hand engine in.

Wonder what state the batteries are in and the water tanks probably need a good dose of bleach.

At least the hull should be dry if the OP fancies doing a barrier coat of epoxy before launching.

Pete

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by fryewe

What I recommend:...

Outstanding advice fryewe.

Alberg, this is advice you should follow to try and start your old girl. Reading through it, it may seem daunting, but it's really not. A little bit of education about marinised diesel engine parts/systems and you'll be on your way in terms of knowing what's what. At the very least, as a boat owner, you should know how to change fluids and the water pump impeller.

The process fryewe outlines will do a few things: 1) ensure that stuff that has sat (oil, ATF, water pump impeller) and is likely to have suffered for it is changed out before you start. They are also things you want in good condition as if they are not, you could do some harm (impeller is hardened, comes apart as it starts spinning, and gets sucked into your heat exchanger). 2) It will provide you with information about what, if anything, needs further attention before you proceed further down the process, and help diagnose potential problems.

Again, it seems overwhelming to the uninitiated, but it's really not rocket science. And it's stuff you'll want to learn anyway sooner rather than later. No boat owner should be beholden to a mechanic for basic auxiliary maintenance and troubleshooting, for the simple fact that most problems happen away from the dock.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by fryewe

The engine is a 41 year old Yanmar 2QM15.

What I recommend:

Replace the oil, oil filter and transmission fluid. Do it yourself. Replace the water pump impeller. Inspect all belts and hoses, and replace any that are obviously in need of it. Discard the used oil at an auto shop or recycling center rather than the marina. All this work is internal to the boat and the marina has no more control of that than your washing dishes.

Make sure the starting battery is charged. Replace it if needed.

Make sure the fuel system is primed. If you have an electric lift pump, make sure it's working. If not, install a priming bulb in the supply and pressurize and vent the fuel supply piping.

If the engine is freshwater cooled, check the tank or the expansion tank, as equipped, to make sure the system is topped off. If not, top it off with 50/50 antifreeze/water solution.

Supply off hull cooling water to the engine using a bucket...NOT a water hose plumbed to the engine, which can flood your engine through the exhaust system. Put the hose in the bucket, plumb that hose to the raw water pump inlet, prime it until there is water at the pump inlet. You'll throttle flow from the hose to the bucket to the engine as needed to avoid loss of pump suction. You'll likely need to tape something heavy to the bucket end of the supply hose to keep it submerged at the bottom of the bucket. I use an old stainless steel chain plate about 15 inches long.

Start the engine and make sure you have cooling water discharging out the exhaust after 5-10 seconds. If not, check that your bucket arrangement is still primed, and add water as needed or throttle the flow to match the discharge, keeping the bucket near full.

Inspect the engine compartment as soon as practicable. If you see anything abnormal, shut the engine down (turn off the water if flowing into the bucket).

After a few minutes of running, shut the engine down. Look, touch, smell from each side of the engine to see if there is overheating or fluids or exhaust leakage. Pay special attention to the exhaust riser which is prone to rusting out. Replace it if you see leakage or exhaust in the engine bay.

If you don't see any problems, re-start the engine and run it for about 15 minutes. Then inspect again. Repeat as many times as you feel the need to assure engine reliability.

Do not engage the transmission. Everything in it except the output shaft should be turning and getting lubricated. Engaging it could damage your new cutlass bearing.

If the engine passes this test, replace the shaft packing and launch your boat.

After launch, double your mooring lines, start your engine, and after warming it up, engage the transmission forward and reverse alternately for a few minutes each, taking the thrust on your lines. Observe the power being generated by watching the water being pumped by your prop. Repeat as necessary to gain confidence in the engine and transmission's capabilities. Observe your shaft package and adjust to a drip for cooling and lubrication. If you have a shaft seal rather than packing, I have no expertise with that and can't comment on how to address that, but would just point out that it needs cooling water flow.

If the transmission passes this test, cast off your lines and go find a new marina that doesn't handcuff its tenants.

Good luck. I'd wager that if your engine was in good fettle when it was last used, it will serve you in good stead for a long time after you take these steps.

Same engine and pretty much same what we did except painted it while it was between the boats. And open up and wire brush cleaned and oiled the starter. I almost wept when I found out that Yanmar dealer wanted $900+ for that starter new so my marine pro friend offered to try to clean it first before ordering the new one. It worked like a charm ever since. I also, before installing the engine, took the alternator to the electric shop to be checked out. It was fine even after 6+ years of non use. So right there, between the starter and the alternator I have saved about $1,500 which would have added 50% cost to my $3,000 total cost of the boat.

PS My marine pro buddy (among other things a 45+ years as a diesel mechanic) swears by QMs as the best Yanmar engines made. His two circumnavigations were done with 3QM30 and he says they are easy to work on and if properly cared for will rarely need to be worked on in the first place.

[CaptTom]

I can't really add to the great advice above, but it just ticks me off to see a new boater being taken advantage of.

I don't know what made the manager think you had an extra $20K lying around to waste on a solution with no known problem. But I suspect if you take the bait there will be lots more "recommendations" to follow.

[Cheechako]

There is no reason the engine should be shot just from sitting for 4 years. Sure it could be, but not likely unless it was put away with issues in the first place.
Yes, turn it over to make sure it will rotate. You don't need to pull the injectors... you are not trying to spin it fast, just trying to make sure it's not frozen up.
Have it launched and get it to where you can work on it. You're going to need to clean out fuel filters, old fuel, oil etc etc. If they have a temporary moorage at the launch marina, just get a couple of days of moorage there and get the engine running.


The other thing you could do is pay them, or a mechanic they let on site, to do a compression test, that way you will find out about the engine, turn it over etc.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Alberg37yawl

Thanks MarkSF,

I wish I was allowed to work on it myself, the marina does not allow any DIY.

Welcome, great advice here. If I was you, I'd print it out and highlight stuff. Make a list. Include checking fluidf levels before you start anything.

You keep mentioning not being allowed to work on your boat. Much of this is down below and out of sight. Do you imply that the yard won't even let you sit down below on your boat?

[Pete7]

The one unknown is the state of the crank seals and engine side of the water pump seal which will probably leak after a couple hours of running from being dry. Seen this regularly on military equipment that isn't used very often. Suddenly oil everywhere. Its a gamble but one worth taking, nothing to loose.

Pete

[Stu Jackson]

fryewe's advice about the cooling water supply is very important. Here's some more info on that:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Winterizing A Diesel Engine On The Hard | SailboatOwners.com Forums

[ur2slo]

Originally Posted by Alberg37yawl

Thanks MarkSF,

I wish I was allowed to work on it myself, the marina does not allow any DIY.

Move it..........

Welcome to pouring money into a hull to keep the water out, enjoy the good and the bad.

Happy days..........

[MarkSF]

My concern is this :

You've not owned a boat before, and it doesn't sound like you know much about them.

This is an old boat (but a good one) that has sat for 4 years. I think it's likely to need work in other areas, than the engine, to get it seaworthy and shipshape.

If you keep paying a yard to do everything that it needs you're going to spend a tremendous amount of money. If you do it yourself you're merely going to spend a lot of money

I got my boat 4 years ago for $40K, and it was sound and in regular use. Since then I've spent at least half the purchase price on upgrades and maintenance. Call it a minor ongoing refit - bought sails, replaced hoses, varnished stuff, standing rigging, refreshed the electronics, engine needed new HX, the list is endless. If I had got a yard to do it all, you could triple that $20K, easily.

Time to wise up, and get stuck in, and learn all about boat maintenance. A good place to start is this book :

https://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Comple.../dp/0071462848

It includes an excellent section on inspecting an ageing boat. I suggest following it. I know the boat has been surveyed, but still....

When you are confident that the boat is sound and not going to sink (main issue would be through-hulls), launch it and move it to a slip (where are you? Do you have to wait until spring?) You don't even need the engine for this. Get a tow or attach an outboard to the back.

Then you can get to work checking the engine over.

Don't worry if the marina doesn't allow DIY in slips. Most don't, and it has to be the most ignored rule in history.

[Moontide]

Usually the "no work" rule pertains to on deck work. If your down inside your boat don't know how they could object. Some of the no work rules are EPA instigated as sanding varnish and other things "pollute" the water according to the tree huggers.

Would hope there is some reasonableness to their rule. Does it also mean you can't change the aerator on a sink faucet?

30-40 hours sounds a bit high to me but some you can figure out ahead of time, such as whether or not you will need a new engine bed/stringers, exhaust connections, etc. If it were me I would be there counting the hours when they say that many. And my guess is that they will come back and say they had "extra" hours for some reason or another. Will they give you a fixed price? Usually not since the prior poster was right, swapping boat engines, like every other big project on a boat, always run into unexpected extra work.

Other 2 cents is "Don't fix it if it ain't broke". But nice to know your options before jumping in. Would the cost of the new engine equate to the value of the boat?

Good luck with this.

[donradcliffe]

The Yanmar replacement would require a different exhaust system, and the yard knows it--that's why their estimate didn't include it. I suspect your bill for the replacement would by over $30k by the time they got done.

[Alberg37yawl]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Welcome, great advice here. If I was you, I'd print it out and highlight stuff. Make a list. Include checking fluidf levels before you start anything.

You keep mentioning not being allowed to work on your boat. Much of this is down below and out of sight. Do you imply that the yard won't even let you sit down below on your boat?

No, they will let you on the boat. I am just not comfortable with not following the yards rules. (mom was not afraid to beat me lol)

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Alberg37yawl

No, they will let you on the boat. I am just not comfortable with not following the yards rules. (mom was not afraid to beat me lol)

"No DIY" almost universally means no working on your own boat when it is hauled and up on the hard. If they didn't let owners change oil, filters and tinker with their and boats in the slip/dockside, and enforced it, they'd be an empty marina. I've never heard of marina that does not allow that.

99% of this stuff is stuff you'll want to do in the water. Before it goes in the water I would inspect the thru hulls, make sure they operate freely and are sound (i.e. don't have any play or snap off when you open/close them lol), and lubricate them (bottle brush and Superlube will suffice for the time being). You might want to also inspect the prop shaft gland seal and make sure you have some packing in the right size. In other words, make sure that all the points at which water might enter the boat (rapidly) are sound. Also bottom paint and zincs. If the yard has to do all that stuff, let them do it. Will save you haulout fees if you end up not having to pull the boat for any other reason.