Cracked exhaust mixing elbow

[mattman]

Hey folks, I recently purchased my first sailboat, a Nonsuch 26 with a Westerbeke 21 in it. During the survey we found the exhaust mixing elbow was cracked, so the price was adjusted and now it's on me to fix it.

I don't have much mechanical experience but I assumed this would be a relatively straight-forward job to get my hands dirty. Unfortunately I'm being told it might be trickier than I thought. The riser appears to be a custom fabrication, of which I have no idea what condition the pipe is in under the heat wrap, and can't tell whether or not it's welded to the elbow.

The boat is quite far away, so the only thing I have access to right now is the attached photo. It will be a 2-day cruise to her home port of Seattle, so I'd also like to know whether or not something like JB Weld would hold it together until I have a chance to work on her a little closer to home.

If anyone is able to interpret this photo and help me understand if this is a relatively straight-forward fix that I could do myself, and what parts I might need, I would very much appreciate it!


Thank you
-Matt

[Cheechako]

I cant blow up your pics so take it with a grain of salt. No JB Weld wont hold up when very hot. It's just epoxy really. I would probably wrap it with soft metal tape maybe aluminum duct sheet cut to width from the hardware store and put some SS clamps on it. Keep the bilge blower on and monitor it now and then. There are also thick fiberglass type exhaust wrap cloth used to shield hot exhaust which could be put on over the metal tape etc.... I think I see some of that in your pic. If it runs real cool as some do, then maybe JB or something made for exhaust repair would work.
Where are you moving from?

[Sailmonkey]

That's a mixing elbow screwed onto a bunch of pipe and elbows. Easy to fix!!

Here's a selection of elbows, one of them is going to be the same!

http://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/shi...ers+%26+Elbows

[mattman]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I cant blow up your pics so take it with a grain of salt. No JB Weld wont hold up when very hot. It's just epoxy really. I would probably wrap it with soft metal tape maybe aluminum duct sheet cut to width from the hardware store and put some SS clamps on it. Keep the bilge blower on and monitor it now and then. There are also thick fiberglass type exhaust wrap cloth used to shield hot exhaust which could be put on over the metal tape etc.... I think I see some of that in your pic. If it runs real cool as some do, then maybe JB or something made for exhaust repair would work.
Where are you moving from?

Hmm, did I upload the picture wrong? I'm able to blow them up.

Thanks for the suggestions on holding it together for the trip, I will look into those techniques. Indeed there is heat-wrap around the pipe right now. I can't say whether or not it runs cool since I haven't inspected that area while running.

The boat will be coming from Lopez Island. I plan on staying overnight in Port Townsend on the first day.

[Cheechako]

I have trouble blowing pics up on CF for some reason. So it's likely not your posting.

[mattman]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

That's a mixing elbow screwed onto a bunch of pipe and elbows. Easy to fix!!

Here's a selection of elbows, one of them is going to be the same!

Westerbeke Exhaust Risers & Elbows Sailboat Supplies, Engine Parts and Boat Parts

Ah yes, it looks like this exact part.

90 DEGREE WATER INJECTED ELBOW Westerbeke 33067 Sailboat Supplies, Engine Parts and Boat Parts

Can you help me understand which barbs/nipples I would need to reuse and reconnect the existing pipe to the new elbow? The toadmarinesupply link lists related parts, but it's not obvious to me which ones I would need

[tfrank]

I recently went thru this. First repair was done with plumbing pipe. Didn't last long and on a 200 mile cruise, it gave out and blew salt water all over the engine and surrounding items. Second fix was with stainless steel elbow. Been about a year now and it's ok. Do it right the first time.

[mattman]

Originally Posted by tfrank

I recently went thru this. First repair was done with plumbing pipe. Didn't last long and on a 200 mile cruise, it gave out and blew salt water all over the engine and surrounding items. Second fix was with stainless steel elbow. Been about a year now and it's ok. Do it right the first time.

I believe I found the correct mixing elbow here:

90 DEGREE WATER INJECTED ELBOW Westerbeke 33067 Sailboat Supplies, Engine Parts and Boat Parts

When you say do it right, are you referring to replacing this heat-wrapped pipe as well? It's not clear to me if this is a custom-fabricated pipe or just a standard pipe and elbows screwed together. Replacing the elbow seems straight-forward enough, but making sure I get this riser right I'm not so sure how to do.

[JPA Cate]

Your manual says that is a casting. Don't believe you can weld it.

When our elbow failed, Jim had access to a welder, and welded up a new one from s/s, and it lasted over 18 yrs. A machine shop could make you up a new one, if you can find all the exact dimensions somewhere.

You don't know if you have a pinhole or a big crack, or what, that pic is from a repair manual. We have used Marine Tex, to seal small leaks, satisfactorily, but it, too, is epoxy, and success will depend on how hot that gets. You might try some gooey high temperature gasket stuff over the leak, then use a cut beer can and s/s hose clamps over that, to get you back to Seattle. Plan on sailing, so you only use the engine for up-anchoring, and getting into your dock. If you need to charge the batteries using the engine, then monitor your cobbled up fix first.

Maybe someone here could come up with an accurate scale drawing of the part, and you could have it made up in advance, planning to install same when you re-join the boat.

Ann

[mattman]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Your manual says that is a casting. Don't believe you can weld it.

When our elbow failed, Jim had access to a welder, and welded up a new one from s/s, and it lasted over 18 yrs. A machine shop could make you up a new one, if you can find all the exact dimensions somewhere.

You don't know if you have a pinhole or a big crack, or what, that pic is from a repair manual. We have used Marine Tex, to seal small leaks, satisfactorily, but it, too, is epoxy, and success will depend on how hot that gets. You might try some gooey high temperature gasket stuff over the leak, then use a cut beer can and s/s hose clamps over that, to get you back to Seattle. Plan on sailing, so you only use the engine for up-anchoring, and getting into your dock. If you need to charge the batteries using the engine, then monitor your cobbled up fix first.

Maybe someone here could come up with an accurate scale drawing of the part, and you could have it made up in advance, planning to install same when you re-join the boat.

Ann

That photo isn't from a repair manual, it's my exact engine and crack (it's a screenshot from the survey)

I wish I knew what condition the pipe was in under that wrap, so that I could potentially install the new exhaust elbow onto it before heading back to Seattle. But it sounds like if worse comes to worst I can just patch it up based on yours and other suggestions and buy myself some time before coming up with the final solution in her home port.

[oldcal46skipper]

Congratulations on your sailboat. I got my first one in 1963. I retired and sailed away in 1988 from SoCal, then 1996 swallowed the hook here on Bayou Chico and began diesel engine repair as I had formal training.

Diesel exhaust temperature is around 700 degrees. I would only attempt to run that engine with the repairs unless it was an emergency.

The mixing elbow is the interface of hot exhaust gas & raw water. Many are made of cast iron or normal plumbing black iron. The best are made from thick wall stainless steel. I bought my Cal 46, Perkins 4.236 in 1982. It was launched in 1967, so this year will be 50 years old and the SS mixing elbow is still perfect.

I had a SS elbow built for my yanmar genset in 1987 and after 6,600 hours is still fine.

I can build you one from SS. PM for details. We have built several for Perkins 4.108's at $350 each + shipping from 32507

Tom

[ApaulaG77]

Most of the time you can fix it with elbows and nipple if you can get at the hardware store

[topmast]

Looks to me like the fractured part is a steel nipple . Temporary fix with strips of tin can and hose clamps It will be usable but will leak CO The whole thing should be replaced With new plumbing parts Heavy schedule. The mixing elbow is at an odd angle. Should point more down into hydro muffler. The first nipple or elbow may have to be welded to the manifold flange. Don't warp the flange. When you got it they way you want, wrap with glass fiber rope /tape and paint with water glass (aluminium silicate)

[topmast]

Add.. good source of heat resistant stuff is a wood stove store.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper

Congratulations on your sailboat. I got my first one in 1963. I retired and sailed away in 1988 from SoCal, then 1996 swallowed the hook here on Bayou Chico and began diesel engine repair as I had formal training.

Diesel exhaust temperature is around 700 degrees. I would only attempt to run that engine with the repairs unless it was an emergency.

The mixing elbow is the interface of hot exhaust gas & raw water. Many are made of cast iron or normal plumbing black iron. The best are made from thick wall stainless steel. I bought my Cal 46, Perkins 4.236 in 1982. It was launched in 1967, so this year will be 50 years old and the SS mixing elbow is still perfect.

I had a SS elbow built for my yanmar genset in 1987 and after 6,600 hours is still fine.

I can build you one from SS. PM for details. We have built several for Perkins 4.108's at $350 each + shipping from 32507

Tom

Matt,

Tom and his wife, Bobbie, and Jim and i met and were cruising at the same time, in the Golfo de California (Sea of Cortez) many years ago.

So, if he says only use the engine in emergency, I'd trust that opinion. He is a professional, and has the experiences to back it up. I am very much an amateur. Plus, he has the "wanting to help" cruiser ethic.

I didn't realize that was actually a picture of your engine's crack, when I answered you before, and was hoping it was much smaller. That is HUGE. How long was the engine run like that??? What did your surveyor tell you about potential damage already caused?

I'm sorry to have to say it, but, based on Tom's post, I'm now worried that you'd be risking the engine to use it even as little as I suggested. I would still try it my way, if there were no other alternative, but if I could get a proper fix delivered to me, it would sure take the worry away. The problem is that the high temperature gasket goo is only good to 600 deg. F, iirc, and Tom says the exhaust gases are 700 deg. F, so it wouldn't hold up very long at all! maybe only seconds.

Perhaps Tom has access to the data he needs for making one for your Westerbeke, out there on the other coast, wouldn't hurt to contact him.


Ann