Chinese engines - Houfeng HF Power

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Plus I try very hard to not support that place, as anyone who cares for human rights and the environment should.

So I guess you wont be buying US made product either.
Or Australian for that matter.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

.......

Another example would be cigarettes and alcohol.
In Vietnam for example, a packet of Marlborough and a bottle of Havana Club would cost about $15.
Same in Australia will cost around $97.
Same product.

Exactly
Same product - different taxes

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Visarend

Thank you all for your contributions. I am well aware of the risks implied in this Chinese choice (incidentally, this is the reason for asking first hand experiences). But I am also well aware that Chinese engines are sold all over SE Asia to every kind of commercial operators - in the 100,000s. And as for commercial ability, Asian operator are not less skilled than Western ones, I cannot imagine they could suffer losses from low quality engines dying too early............



........... Please, if possible just don't let me be the first to make this test...

I can't help with a first hand experience but perhaps the following is useful.

I had an acquaintance who had fitted a Houfeng engine to a 32' displacement motor boat some 8 or more years back. I don't the model but it was big (really heavy and around say 80+ hp) and looked like a copy of old Mercedes truck engine. He ran it between 1200 and 1800 rpm but mostly below 1600.

He never had an ounce of trouble with it and the last I heard, it had a couple of thousand hours on it.

EDIT: I think (but don't know for sure) he fitted his own heat exchanger and water pump">raw water pump or he might have used keel cooling. I know he ran a dry exhaust.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

So I guess you wont be buying US made product either.
Or Australian for that matter.

Can’t say I’ve seen many Australian products...I do like your licorice though.


American, I’ve been flying American made planes for quite some time, factory new to 1940s airframes, been very happy with them, same with some other stuff I’ve bought for hobbies of mine.

When the workers have little to no freedoms, no care for the environment (which goes with poverty), to think they have any care for the widgets (like that engine) they slave to build in some nasty factory is fantasy. I wonder if that engine factory has those suicide nets like some of the other chinese factories?


I’ve toured a few airplane factories, firearms manufacturers, and others in the US and you could see the pride they had and it was shown in the fruits on their labors too.

[lord at sea]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

As he smashes out his answer on a Chinese made iPhone or other Chinese made device

China also make Ford, Cummins,Volvo,Mercedes,BMW and and and so are clearly more than capable of making quality.

As rule I've come to aviod buying anything "made in China" since I have found that the quality is often lacking when compared with most other countries, this may be consummer driven it'S cheaper, I will buy NA or Euro even if I pay more, in the end it's cheaper to buy once rather than 3/4 times cheap, But that's me.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

. I wonder if that engine factory has those suicide nets like some of the other chinese factories?


.

And yet it is America that has far higher suicide rates than China

13.7 per 100,000 for the US Vs 8.0 for China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate

Worrying trends in U.S. suicide rates
U.S. suicide rates have risen in recent years, while rates in other nations have fallen. What can we learn from their examples?
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/03/trends-suicide

Put down to other countries (Chinas) standard of living increasing while Americas is dropping

You still haven't addressed Americas Human rights abuse and environmental issues either.

Glass houses?
Pot Kettle Black?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by lord at sea

As rule I've come to aviod buying anything "made in China" since I have found that the quality is often lacking when compared with most other countries, this may be consummer driven it'S cheaper, I will buy NA or Euro even if I pay more, in the end it's cheaper to buy once rather than 3/4 times cheap, But that's me.

Typed out on an iPhone or iPad?

You do know they are made in China right?
As is the vast majority of almost everything you use.

So much comedy gold in these reds under the bed, they're stealin our jeeerbs threads. (-;

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Typed out on an iPhone or iPad?

You do know they are made in China right?
As is the vast majority of almost everything you use.

So much comedy gold in these reds under the bed, they're stealin our jeeerbs threads. (-;

We covered this.

Phone breaks, oh well, engine takes a crap, different story. And again, be happy to get a phone not made in china.

As far a QOL, riiiiight, the only place there’s could go is up, it’s a communist country, they all go down the same path, unless you’re high ranking government or connected to high ranking government, it’s bad news bears.
To even compare QOL from the US to china is just silly.

Most everything I use for work or in the hobbies and sports I enjoy is made in the free world, mostly US, some Canadian, some German, NOTHING that is mission critical is made in china.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by Visarend

Thank you all for your contributions. I am well aware of the risks implied in this Chinese choice (incidentally, this is the reason for asking first hand experiences). But I am also well aware that Chinese engines are sold all over SE Asia to every kind of commercial operators - in the 100,000s. And as for commercial ability, Asian operator are not less skilled than Western ones, I cannot imagine they could suffer losses from low quality engines dying too early.


When in Europe Japanese cars where looked down, as GILow recalls, I started shopping for, guess what, a Toyota. Then a Honda. And since 1999 I am the proud owner of a Toyota Land Cruiser totaling more than 250,000 km and still running fine.


My first contacts with Chinese companies are surprising. When I asked for a quote regarding a 50 Hp the company Weifang, the answer was that they would not sell one of their engines to me, because they are intended for light duty and coastal use only: it never happened to me with a European company before!


As for Houfeng, the situation is completely different: they produce industrial and marine engines branded Man, Deutz, Iveco, Perkins (branded, not simply derivatives).


Re my Ford rebuild, I'll follow the links offered by Atoll (thanks again), but have to say that the specialized companies I found in Italy and France that are able and willing to rebuild the engine pointed to the fact that there are risks in this operation, too, and that in very few years it could prove impossible to find spares.


So what? Even if I have a slight penchant for jumping to a Chinese engine, I am well aware of the risks (and as a self builder of my boat, of all the work needed to modify he structures as needed). Please, if possible just don't let me be the first to make this test...

Yes agree with what you say. Your last line is the most important one, you don't want to be the guinea pig.
The Houfeng may well be fine, or not. It gives you greater hope if they manufacture under licence but you have to trust that they use the same materials & quality controls.
If you know anyone who can speak & read mandarin maybe try research in Chinese boating blogs/forums if such things exist. i got a Chinese translator to help me out when buying parts from Taiwan.
I hope you post back if you buy a Houfeng. Good luck with whatever you decide

[SV Toucan]

Not Bayliner, they used Hino, later called US Marine turbo diesels, and Cummins. The Hino diesels are very economical to operate.

[Montanan]

FYI:

Of keen concern in procuring an engine is spare part availability and warrant service. Does this Chinese manufacturer have significant out of country dealership presence? With particularity as to the country or countries you boat will be located. If you can't get a maintenance part when you need one, the engine is worth nothing.

Reference for a major Chinese diesel engine manufacturer which also has marine products: China Yuchai International Limited (“CYI�)

The report below is probably mostly relevant to large diesel engines, not high speed yacht diesel engines. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300292900.html

Global and China Marine Diesel Engine Industry Report, 2016
NEWS PROVIDED BY

Reportlinker
Jun 30, 2016, 03:24 ET




NEW YORK, June 30, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- A marine diesel engine is the major power equipment of a vessel, with the cost accounting for around 10% of the total. It can be divided into low-speed, medium-speed and high-speed marine diesel engines according to the rotational speed.

In 2015, the global marine diesel engine market size was 33.43 million kilowatts, up 10.2% from a year earlier. The global marine diesel engine production was mainly concentrated in China, Japan, and South Korea. And South Korea mainly produced low-speed marine diesel engines while China and Japan primarily focused on medium-speed engines.

In 2015, fueled by the growing starts in vessels, the output of marine diesel engines in China rose by 15.1% year on year to 16.99 million kilowatts, with the output of low-speed, medium-speed, and high-speed engines accounting for 41.2%, 40.1%, and 18.7%, respectively.

In China, marine diesel engines are mainly produced through patent licensing. Low-speed engines are absolutely dominated by MAN,Wartsila, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries; in medium-speed engine market, Wartsila, MAN, and Caterpillar represented a combined market share of 82% (in 2015); high-speed engine brands primarily include MTU, Deutz, MWM, SACM, Pielstick, Ruston, and Paxman.

China's marine diesel engine market started late, so much so that it is poor in production technology and R&D capability. Therefore, most engine products with high technical content are still reliant on imports. In 2015, China imported USD1.07 billion worth of marine diesel engines and exported USD94.95 million engines, with a trade deficit of as much as USD970 million.

In China's low-speed diesel engine market, Hudong Heavy Machinery, Dalian Marine Diesel, and Yichang Marine Diesel Engine accounted for an aggregate market share of roughly 95.9%; in medium-speed diesel enginemarket, Weichai Heavy Machinery and CSSC Marine Power made up a 58.9% market share; high-speed diesel engine manufacturers mainly include Weichai Heavy Machinery, Shaanxi Diesel Engine Heavy Industry, and Henan Diesel Engine Industry, of which Weichai Heavy Machinery has a market share of around 26%.

To improve the competitiveness in marine diesel engine market, major Chinese diesel engine manufacturers are working on new product development.

Hudong Heavy Machinery is the largest manufacturer of low-speed marine diesel engines in China (a roughly 65% share in domesticmarket). It gained a 51% stake in CSSC-MES Diesel in 2013. In April 2016, the company's high-pressure marine air supply system became China's first certified FGSS, thus breaking the monopoly of Japan and South Korea in the product market.

In October 2015, CSSC Marine Power renewed the contract with MAN Diesel & Turbofor another 10 years of production of four-stroke medium speed engines. In May 2016, the company's 6S60ME low-speed diesel engine started operation. The latest designed model is the largest diesel engine constructed by CSSC Marine Power, which weighs approximately 390 tons.

Henan Diesel Engine Industry released the first domestic HPCR high-speed high-power diesel engine -- CHD622V20CR in December 2015, a move that helped fill the gap in the domestic 3500kw-above high-speed diesel engine market.

Yichang Marine Diesel Engine completed the bench test of its first 8S60ME-C8.2 diesel engine in August 2015, and the performance indicators of the product satisfied the design requirements.With a rated power of 14100KW, it could be the largest diesel engine product in power since the company's founding.

[Fore and Aft]

I checked my files and I have seen a 40hp Shanghai diesel with 900 hours on it in a Roberts spray. Judging by the photos and my notes the owner seemed very happy and the engine looks like new.
If my memory serves me correct the owner was almost given the engine from an importer who tried to sell the engines here in Australia
Cheers

[a64pilot]

I’ll go on record and say the highest quality as far as hand fabrication of aircraft flight controls I’ve seen, the work was done in China.

Then you may think your buying a US or European product, but it’s very likely all the hardware and bearing etc were made in China.

In China apparently to some extent you get what you pay for, if your willing to pay a good price, and establish quality controls, some of the finest workmanship is done in China.

If your primary goal is to purchase the absolutely cheapest product possible, the Chinese will happily turn out as much junk as you’ll buy.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Can’t say I’ve seen many Australian products...I do like your licorice though.


American, I’ve been flying American made planes for quite some time, factory new to 1940s airframes, been very happy with them, same with some other stuff I’ve bought for hobbies of mine.

When the workers have little to no freedoms, no care for the environment (which goes with poverty), to think they have any care for the widgets (like that engine) they slave to build in some nasty factory is fantasy. I wonder if that engine factory has those suicide nets like some of the other chinese factories?


I’ve toured a few airplane factories, firearms manufacturers, and others in the US and you could see the pride they had and it was shown in the fruits on their labors too.

You appear to be living in the past, you do know don't you that China has a rapidly growing middle class that exceeds the average middle class wealth of many western countries, and as for suicide nets in factories, just outdated propaganda BS.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’ll go on record and say the highest quality as far as hand fabrication of aircraft flight controls I’ve seen, the work was done in China.

Then you may think your buying a US or European product, but it’s very likely all the hardware and bearing etc were made in China.

In China apparently to some extent you get what you pay for, if your willing to pay a good price, and establish quality controls, some of the finest workmanship is done in China.

If your primary goal is to purchase the absolutely cheapest product possible, the Chinese will happily turn out as much junk as you’ll buy.

I too have seen some amazing product from China, but as A64 has pointed out, if you want cheap, China will happily oblige.

[NorthernMac]

Not buying it.

I mean between their social credit score, the self appointed life time king, the protests, the pollution, lack of nearly any freedoms compared to the US, yeah, that’s a big can of nooope