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Old 01-04-2007, 11:52   #1
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Lightbulb Bringing a 4107 back to life (questions)

The boat I am considering and have yet to eyeball has a 4107 that has been sitting for 5ish years in the water. Without digging too deep in the merits of such purchase, I am interested in some coaching on getting this Perkins to go. JohnL had good advice on the steps to firing it up. I am wondering, after having read prior posts about some of the problems that can develop with these engines and it seems the following are the trouble (maintenance) spots: Heat Exchanger, water pump">Raw water pump, freash water pump, injector pump, injectors...elbow, mixier, starter, alternator, mounts, belts,...

Am I better off in the l;ong run to replace/ rebuild all of these items at the gitgo even before trying to run engine. The risk is good money into bad, the upside is posible to geterdone, and acrue some spares in the process.

The BW Velvet drive seems to be a stout piece of machinery. I will look for shavings in the oil, smell and replace with filters and likely hoses and fittings. What else is done prior to load testing?

Id reckon that corrosion will be an issue, as the zincs have likely not been maintained. Will I face shearing off every bolt (again, I don't know if this engine looks like a ball of rust or not.) I realise this will become tiresome to bear with me until I actually have something solid to share. But, standing at the precipice, I must reach for what I can get.
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:24   #2
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write it off, get a lower price on the boat and repower.
Your sanity and stress level will thank me in a year of two.
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Old 01-04-2007, 19:24   #3
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This is one of the rare occasions I disagree with Never Monday. The Perkins is a stout engine. I would recommend getting her started before spending a dime on the engine. (Excluding some preoiling of the cylinders and such). But I would keep the Perkins. If the engine is done, a rebuild will cost you in the neighborhood of $5k. However, rebuilding the Perkins is no guarantee the accessories will not need rebuild or replacement also. Bottom line, the Perkins is a good solid engine. Sitting for 5 years is no guaranty that it has a problem, aside from dried out seals that should be replaced.
That said, the intended use of the boat should also be a real consideration. I would not start out on a circumnavigation with an engine that has been sitting, and is an unknown. If your intent is daysailing, and a few years to take off, the perkins will probably work fine. Consider repowering before you take off to cruise.
As for the specifics of starting the engine after sitting, if it has a compression release, turn the engine with it released until the oil pressure reaches an operating level, then start. If no compression release, pull the injectors, put a little Mystery Oil in each hole, and turn the engine for about 20 seconds. Then reassemble, and fire it up.
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Old 01-04-2007, 19:44   #4
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I have seen a diesel engine that sat underwater for about a year or so salvaged and restarted, so I would not give up and I hope that gives you some hope. Listen to Kai Nui, because I would have givin the same sound advice.
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Old 01-04-2007, 23:43   #5
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Same here!!

Don't throw in the towel yet!!

Like Kai Nui said. You may have some good in that engine yet. So "just" give her a try. It wouldn't hurt!!

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
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Old 02-04-2007, 01:46   #6
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And don't forget to give her a good cleaning and paint job!Let her shine.I like Perky things.Mudnut.
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Old 02-04-2007, 11:18   #7
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Aloha again Richard,
The BW Velvet Drive is a great transmission and is rated for way higher hp units than your 4-107 so it definitely is a keeper. Drain and change the fluid in it before using it. Usually the things that might go wrong with it is caused by overheating. Even more often is a problem with the drive plate between your engine and transmission but if it goes into forward, neutral and reverse while your engine is running it pretty much is good to go and you shouldn't worry about it.
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Old 05-04-2007, 19:54   #8
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Well, its looking like they want my offer. Getting that engine running will be first priority. I am daunted by the job since I have only limited experience with diesel repairs. Is priming the same as i remember flip the fuel pawl with the fingers about 1000 times and back off each injector till fuel sprays on a wood board. With the two bolt injectors is it the same?
Bench test the injectors before trying to start?

I don't know how much fuel is aboard. Am I to pump it out fully? Is an external 'rattler' type pump the way to go?The boat is fitted with 2 80 gallon tanks that I think are fiberglass.

For some reason I am having frequent thoughts about the injector pump.(and the seals, bearings, and...)
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Old 05-04-2007, 22:23   #9
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Charging in...

If the boat has sat for 5+ years with no use I would not expect too much from the battery.

Some alternative means of charging the battery and a new battery could see you going. The engine driven alternator may not charge the battery properly until it has run for a long time.

Some other suggestions :
1) Change the engine and gearbox oil yourself. Then you can only blame yourself if you find no oil in gearbox or engine. Use good quality oil and the correct transmission fluid.
2) Change all filters.
3) Get a set of the correct size spanners (if you don't have one already).
4) Ask someone who knows to show you where the bleed point is on the injector pump and how to bleed the injectors. Maybe someone in this Forum knows.
5) I have a Perkins type lift pump on my Ford and it has given no end of trouble. Seriously consider replacing yours before you do anything else.
6) Check all hose clamps and hoses. Tighten and replace as necessary. Check the cooling fresh water level.
7) Replace the impeller in the raw water pump. Check that water is flowing from the exhaust if the engine starts.
8) Check all V belts. Keep fingers, hair etc. well clear of them when starting or running the engine.
9) Find out how to manage an oily bilge.
10) Don't use ether unless the engine is going to start or die trying. Only a tiny amount could do the trick.
11) Put Bandaids on your knuckles. (Saves doing it later.)
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Old 08-04-2007, 19:48   #10
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Inching forward. Booked a flight for Wednesday to decide on purchase. Making progress in understanding the diesel. Latest revelation is fuel delivery. Still looking for more info on understanding the injector pump. I am also hoping that the boat will have the Perkins manual. (the flight is one way).

BTW, anyone know a good source for stay locks or Norseman fittings. The stuff in the worst marine catalog looks generic. thanks for the help.
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Old 08-04-2007, 22:15   #11
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I once saw a turbocharged Perkins engine that had literally been dug out of the ground after 15 years, had grass growing everywhere it could, spiders in the manifolds, rust and about anything else you could imagine clinging to it. It was fitted into a digger and up in running in less than 7 hours!!! It replaced an engine that had been destroyed by kids starting it and running it at full revs then walking away. The old engine had done most of it's life in the digger on top of a salt pile to load barges. Thank God I never had to put a wrench on any of the bolts but it still ran like a dream (until the kids blew it).
My advice? Stick with it initially.
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Old 08-04-2007, 22:41   #12
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So I take it that this engine has never truned over for five years???
How many hrs on the engine???
Drain engine oil first off. DO NOT allow old oil to run back up around the engine. Drain it so as any water in the bottom of the sump can be got rid of.
OK, presume the engine will initially be siezed. It won't be solid never to go again, but it could be stuck in place and stuck enough to stop you from turning it with ease. So you will need to get a long bar onto the front crank and work it backwards and forwards till the engine free's and then turn it over two compleate revs to ensure all is OK and no valves are stuck in the open position. DON'T try turning it over with the starter. You could break or bend something.
DO NOT try and start on the old fuel. Drain it all compleatly and clean and visually inpsect the insides of the tank. They could be full of rust/bug/holes. I would suggest for the initial run up, you use a small container that can place the fuel pickup hose in and use fresh fuel.
Fit new fuel filters. And on the mechanical lift pump, remove the cover and ensure the screen inside is clean. Once all is clean, use the lift pump and crack the bleed nut on the fuel filter and pump fuel through till all air os gone. Then crack the bleed nut on the injector pump and pump till air is gone. The next step of getting the air from the injectors is done by turning the engine over. The lift pump will not push fuel through to this point. Pull the stop lever to the stop position so the engine will not start. Crack the nut on the fuel rail to the injector and turn the engine over till the air is gone, then tighten it. Work along the row of injectors.
DON'T START THE ENGINE YET. With the stop lever out, now turn the engine over till the oil pressure comes up. Then push the stop lever back in and turn it over, it should hopefully fire up.
Heat exchanger is something you will have to give a good inspection of. Not much to say there. Salt water cooling pump will need a new impellor. Ensure the shaft and key inside has not corroded away. Fresh water pump should be OK. Lets hope they have left anticorrosive fluid in the water. This will need flushing anyway and new water and new inhibitors added as the old stuff will not be active anymore. That can be done after you get it fired up. Give it a good flush through.
Change belts. Alternator should be OK after it has run awhile. Starter should be OK. But both could have frozen bearings, so check they turn over OK. The Alternator will be ball bearing and so listen for noise, the starter is possibly bronze, so you may want to strip the starter once the intitial engine work has been done, and ensure it is all OK. If either either niether work, you need to check the brushes and comutator is clean and not corroded.
Good luck.

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Old 11-04-2007, 19:43   #13
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When going from the temporary fuel jug back to the vessels tankage, is reprime required I think yes. Great info MUCH OBLIGED. BTW my inspection has been pushed back to next weekend which helps, but the lunar cycle puts me with no or partial moon for delivery.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:09   #14
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On the plus side - one thing I've been amazed of in the past three years that I've owned a 4.108 Perkins is the availability of nearly any part you could ever want virtually all over the south pacific.

Last week I replaced the old heat exchanger with a new one - I was able to get the exact part which lines up nicely with my existing configuration from a firm here in Australia.
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:18   #15
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Last week I replaced the old heat exchanger with a new one - I was able to get the exact part which lines up nicely with my existing configuration from a firm here in Australia.
Hmm, interesting.

How much did you pay?

Heat Exchangers for tht 4-108 are kind of pricey around here, starting at $350.00.
Been thinking about a bigger one as the 4-108 runs hot when I cruise above 2500- 2600 RPM. (Temps steadily creeping up into the red..Tried everything to fix it, no cigar, somebody mentioned similar problem on similar engine and the next size-up H/E fixed it)
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