Borg-Warner Stuck in Forward Gear

[jordanbigel]

I have a Perkins 4.236 in my boat with a Borg-Warner Velvet Drive (1.91:1) and last week, after not using the boat for a long time, I motored about 15 hours (no wind). When I arrived at my destination, I could not get the shifter out of fwd gear. I was about to anchor, so I just did a slow turn back out and shut the engine down, then slammed my hand into the shifter and knocked it back into neutral, then re-started the engine. Everything worked fine after that, both with the engine off and with it on. But, I had to really hit the shift level hard, with a scary amount of force, to get it to move. Once I anchored, I shut down the engine again. I checked the trans fluid, it looks great, on the line, clear and red (it has not been changed in 3 or 4 years, to be honest, but I didn't want to risk mucking with it the day before planning to depart for a week long outing).

Now, a week later, I'm preparing to up anchor and head back, and I'm obviously concerned this is going to happen again.

Has anyone see this kind of thing before? Is it old transmission fluid, even though it looks and smells like new? I've lubricated the shifter linkage, although I did not take it apart - I've read about the ball bearing which controls the position of the shifter, but I don't think that is the problem because it shifts smoothly when the engine is off (not counting the one time I described above where I had to shut the engine while in fwd gear and then I still could not move it to neutral, and had to force it!).

Thanks in advance!

[cofc]

Just to be clear - are you having trouble while shifting the throttle/gear selector at the wheel, or when trying to manually manipulate the fwd/rev selector on the transmission itself?

[Emmalina]

So your morse cable has rusted up probably. Disconnect it from the gearbox and try moving the shift lever on the gearbox its nearly always the cable in these cases.

[cofc]

Originally Posted by Emmalina

So your morse cable has rusted up probably. Disconnect it from the gearbox and try moving the shift lever on the gearbox its nearly always the cable in these cases.

I agree that this is likely the issue. Most boat shops, West Marine included, stock a large selection of shifter cables.

[TCL]

Agreed that it is most likely the shifter cable. I had a situation where I couldn't get my transmission into reverse, and it was the shifter cable (actually the bracket attaching the shifter cable to the engine block had loosened, so that the cable housing was not being held stationary, so that the cable could push the shift lever on the gearbox into reverse). Several years ago, had rough shifting problems and replaced the entire shift cable and lever (then-existing one had been in use for decade-plus before I bought the boat).

[bongo]

If it is indeed the Morse cable, care needs to be taken when installing the new one. Make sure that the ball bearing on the local shift mechanism goes into each detention with the remote lever in the proper location. Otherwise you can ruin your transmission. Don’t ask me how I know.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I have a Perkins 4.236 in my boat with a Borg-Warner Velvet Drive (1.91:1) and last week, after not using the boat for a long time, I motored about 15 hours (no wind). When I arrived at my destination, I could not get the shifter out of fwd gear. I was about to anchor, so I just did a slow turn back out and shut the engine down, then slammed my hand into the shifter and knocked it back into neutral, then re-started the engine. Everything worked fine after that, both with the engine off and with it on. But, I had to really hit the shift level hard, with a scary amount of force, to get it to move. Once I anchored, I shut down the engine again. I checked the trans fluid, it looks great, on the line, clear and red (it has not been changed in 3 or 4 years, to be honest, but I didn't want to risk mucking with it the day before planning to depart for a week long outing).

Now, a week later, I'm preparing to up anchor and head back, and I'm obviously concerned this is going to happen again.

Has anyone see this kind of thing before? Is it old transmission fluid, even though it looks and smells like new? I've lubricated the shifter linkage, although I did not take it apart - I've read about the ball bearing which controls the position of the shifter, but I don't think that is the problem because it shifts smoothly when the engine is off (not counting the one time I described above where I had to shut the engine while in fwd gear and then I still could not move it to neutral, and had to force it!).

Thanks in advance!

Detent is the term for the transmissions position mechanism.
Yes it can stick, I'd assume the cable is binding or over adjusted and your shifter mechanism is binding.
Haven't heard from you back yet so.....we'll all wait.
SV Cloud Duster

[jordanbigel]

I should have anticipated the suggestions that the problem is the shifter cable, I don't believe that is the case because:

1- before the shifter was stuck in Fwd, shifting operated normally both with the engine on, and, with the engine off
2- after the shifter was stuck in Fwd, and I slammed the shifter level with my hand to get it back into neutral, everything worked fine (by which I mean I was able to shift easily and normally between neutral and fwd/reverse both with the engine on, and with the engine off)
3-after morning today for 12+ hours, I stopped every 90 minutes to test the shifter and each time I was able to easily shift in and out of fwd gear without issue, with the engine running (then I put it back in gear).

Also, before last week, I checked the trans oil level and verified the shifter movement both with the engine on and off - smooth as silk.

SO, it was only the one time (so far) where the gear shifter was stuck in Fwd (after motoring 16 hours without stopping - which I should add I have done dozens of times before).

Therefore, I am interested to learn about what could cause this issue which is not related to a sticky or rusty shifter cable (which I do not have)?

Thanks!

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I should have anticipated the suggestions that the problem is the shifter cable, I don't believe that is the case because:

1- before the shifter was stuck in Fwd, shifting operated normally both with the engine on, and, with the engine off
2- after the shifter was stuck in Fwd, and I slammed the shifter level with my hand to get it back into neutral, everything worked fine (by which I mean I was able to shift easily and normally between neutral and fwd/reverse both with the engine on, and with the engine off)
3-after morning today for 12+ hours, I stopped every 90 minutes to test the shifter and each time I was able to easily shift in and out of fwd gear without issue, with the engine running (then I put it back in gear).

Also, before last week, I checked the trans oil level and verified the shifter movement both with the engine on and off - smooth as silk.

SO, it was only the one time (so far) where the gear shifter was stuck in Fwd (after motoring 16 hours without stopping - which I should add I have done dozens of times before).

Therefore, I am interested to learn about what could cause this issue which is not related to a sticky or rusty shifter cable (which I do not have)?

Thanks!

Which series is this VD.
Can be detent, loose linkage, slide valve worn, water,rust.
Look up the parts involved.
If it's not cables, linkages, or adjustment of those items.
I'd disconnect the linkage and manually operate the shift.
You should be able to feel any looseness in the shaft, or lack of a clear click into fwd. and reverse.
Worn components in there can bind.
SV Cloud Duster

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I should have anticipated the suggestions that the problem is the shifter cable, I don't believe that is the case because:

1- before the shifter was stuck in Fwd, shifting operated normally both with the engine on, and, with the engine off
2- after the shifter was stuck in Fwd, and I slammed the shifter level with my hand to get it back into neutral, everything worked fine (by which I mean I was able to shift easily and normally between neutral and fwd/reverse both with the engine on, and with the engine off)
3-after morning today for 12+ hours, I stopped every 90 minutes to test the shifter and each time I was able to easily shift in and out of fwd gear without issue, with the engine running (then I put it back in gear).

Also, before last week, I checked the trans oil level and verified the shifter movement both with the engine on and off - smooth as silk.

SO, it was only the one time (so far) where the gear shifter was stuck in Fwd (after motoring 16 hours without stopping - which I should add I have done dozens of times before).

Therefore, I am interested to learn about what could cause this issue which is not related to a sticky or rusty shifter cable (which I do not have)?

Thanks!

Hi,
Is that the 71c or 72c VD?
I'm thinking your selector piston valve is worn.
Please check out this video.
The poster has a contact number you can call.
They are rebuilders.
SV Cloud Duster

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I should have anticipated the suggestions that the problem is the shifter cable, I don't believe that is the case because:

1- before the shifter was stuck in Fwd, shifting operated normally both with the engine on, and, with the engine off
2- after the shifter was stuck in Fwd, and I slammed the shifter level with my hand to get it back into neutral, everything worked fine (by which I mean I was able to shift easily and normally between neutral and fwd/reverse both with the engine on, and with the engine off)
3-after morning today for 12+ hours, I stopped every 90 minutes to test the shifter and each time I was able to easily shift in and out of fwd gear without issue, with the engine running (then I put it back in gear).

Also, before last week, I checked the trans oil level and verified the shifter movement both with the engine on and off - smooth as silk.

SO, it was only the one time (so far) where the gear shifter was stuck in Fwd (after motoring 16 hours without stopping - which I should add I have done dozens of times before).

Therefore, I am interested to learn about what could cause this issue which is not related to a sticky or rusty shifter cable (which I do not have)?

Thanks!

And an even better one of the control valve, disassembly, and reassembly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EHIEybc0sbY

SV Cloud Duster

[skipper53]

On an A4, if the engine is shut down while in forward, it is nearly impossible to shift back to neutral before restarting the engine. Try starting the engine in forward gear (if no neutral safety switch) and it may shift easily.

Then, shut the engine down while in neutral next time.

That works for me.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Hi,
Is that the 71c or 72c VD?
I'm thinking your selector piston valve is worn.
Please check out this video.
The poster has a contact number you can call.
They are rebuilders.
SV Cloud Duster

I think its the 72c - I have the plate around here somewhere (it fell off long ago).

I have manually operated the shift lever after disconnecting the linkage and it seemed to move smoothly and clicked into place in each gear. But I did not try it with the engine running.

Love the video, thanks! Will investigate the selector piston valve! Thanks again.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by skipper53

Try starting the engine in forward gear (if no neutral safety switch) and it may shift easily.
Then, shut the engine down while in neutral next time.
That works for me.

If it happens again, I will try that, thanks.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I think its the 72c - I have the plate around here somewhere (it fell off long ago).

I have manually operated the shift lever after disconnecting the linkage and it seemed to move smoothly and clicked into place in each gear. But I did not try it with the engine running.

Love the video, thanks! Will investigate the selector piston valve! Thanks again.

Reproducing the same conditions is usually the best way of catching an intermittent problem.
But who's going to motor 16 hrs just to maybe have the problem come to light.
Hard to say what happened there.
Seems the weakest link is the shift mechanism helm to trans.
Any chance you have dual helms?
Pins, nuts, clips, ball bearings, pivot points. All potential issues.
I've seen cables depart strands internally and bind on the inner cover, but the cabled looked okay.
Can't say with any certainty it's the piston valve, yet looking through these vids.
There are many and it's a common item on bigger vessels.
Hope that helps some.
SV Cloud Duster