Bio fuel called Diesel

[Emmalina]

Just a heads up that now in Thailand all diesel will contain 7% Palm oil derivative... the government has decided to just call it diesel instead of B7 . My donkey seems ok with this stuff I am even thinking B10 (10%) as its cheaper and I can't see a big difference between 7-10%. My biggest fear is diesel bug if left for long periods. So what engines can or can't use this stuff I wonder ?

[Lepke]

So they'll clear more forest for palm oil plantations.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by Emmalina

Just a heads up that now in Thailand all diesel will contain 7% Palm oil derivative... the government has decided to just call it diesel instead of B7 . My donkey seems ok with this stuff I am even thinking B10 (10%) as its cheaper and I can't see a big difference between 7-10%. My biggest fear is diesel bug if left for long periods. So what engines can or can't use this stuff I wonder ?

I guess you'd need to consult with engine manufacturer.
As for bug you can use a biocide if worried. I dont know about palm oil but I've left bottles of oil in bush camps for many years in a damp environment & they only become rancid but nothing seems to grow in the oil.
My guess is that it would be no worse than diesel.
I recently put 2 litres of old filtered canola oil into our 20 litre diesel tank before filling the rest with diesel as I like to experiment & it runs fine but not a long term trial. I did a bit of online research & it seemed ok to do.

[StuM]

Strictly speaking, Thailand's diesel will be a mixture of 93% petrodiesel and 7% biodiesel. Both are equally "diesel fuels".


(Early diesel engines were run on peanut oil, vehicles ran for many years solely on coconut diesel in Bougainville, quite a few "green vehicles" are now running on filtered used cooking oil diesel).


(It's just that currently most diesel fuel are petrodiesel and so people have dropped the "petro" part).

[Emmalina]

Originally Posted by Lepke

So they'll clear more forest for palm oil plantations.

And the sad joke is they are now trying to promote it as a green solution ....

[ggray]

Originally Posted by StuM

<snip>
Early diesel engines were run on peanut oil,
.

Yes, I've read that peanut oil was the first "diesel" fuel, and also that coal dust was.

[boatpoker]

Love a boat that smells like french fries.

[boat driver]

Bio diesel any form has short shelf life.
Won’t hurt engine but if it gets stored long periods it will grow and nothing today will clean the tanks except hot fuel washing. So absolutely poison it wi5h conditioner and if storing boat try and segregate to a single tank and minimize amount in boat.
When it grows it looks like honey comb.
Unfortunately this is the future.
Find what the commercial guys use for additative.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by boat driver

Bio diesel any form has short shelf life.
Won’t hurt engine but if it gets stored long periods it will grow and nothing today will clean the tanks except hot fuel washing. So absolutely poison it wi5h conditioner and if storing boat try and segregate to a single tank and minimize amount in boat.
When it grows it looks like honey comb.
Unfortunately this is the future.
Find what the commercial guys use for additative.

This! But older type engines actually run better on this than on normal diesel. Modern Common Rail diesels do not.

[jakkum]

I ran the Peugeot 1,9 in my 1998 van for years on something like 50% sunflower oil and diesel. Never a problem. But by the time the price went up, I stopped doing that.
Before, I bought boxes full of bottles of baking oil at the local supermarket. Haha, people watched me while I was porink.
No problems no soot at the yearly check no blocked filters or pipes, but I used that car every day. Still do

[stubones99]

Isn't it interesting when government gets involved to encourage us minions to do something that's "right" and it turns out without their involvement, it is the WRONG thing to do? Like Ethanol watering down Gasoline? Without the governmental subsidies, it would cost far more to add Ethanol to gasoline... Last I heard, a gallon of ethanol was about $4.20, when made with corn.

Back in the 70s they ran busses on Peanut oil where I grew up... Sure, it worked, but Peanut oil was FAR more expensive than diesel, with Diesel costing $0.50 to $0.75 cents a gallon, and peanut oil costing about $10 per gallon?

Follow the money, and then you'll see why they come up with these idiotic plans.

[Philipcataproa]

Do not worry, there are too many negative comments. The bio fuel burns cleaner, it lubricates better. I have manufactured it and used it 100 pure with no apparent problems except that some oils harden at low temps. Go for it.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by Philipcataproa

Do not worry, there are too many negative comments. The bio fuel burns cleaner, it lubricates better. I have manufactured it and used it 100 pure with no apparent problems except that some oils harden at low temps. Go for it.

When you ran you biodiesel, did you let it sit for months on end in a humid temperature?
The issue of utilizing in the engine biodiesel is not really the question- It will not hurt the engine excepting some sensor software parameters may need recalibrating-The issue becomes storage of biodiesel in fuel tank.
Minnesota, USA for example requires biodiesel in all state vehicles EXCEPT the standby emergency diesel powered vehicles due to the solidification/growth in the fuel. This is mandated requirements- so it suggests potential fact to long term storage of biodiesel is still unstable.

Personal experience working on marine engines with past biodiesel in tanks- the injection pump and lines are replaced (labor $$$$ issue to rebuild) and the fuel tanks are hot-fuel pressure washed.

Personal conclusion- If bio-diesel is all that is available, use as needed and flush lines with non-diesel when going into >2 month layup. It is perfectly fine to put kerosene into the tank and fuel lines for layup.

[Philipcataproa]

Storage of biodiesel is not much of a problem. Petrochemical diesel actually supply summer and winter diesel. Many farmers that typically buy stock at the start of the planting season normally spring receive summer diesel. In wintertime it solidify in the tank and pipes just like biodiesel. So what is important is to understand that you should use the diesel before it gets too cold.

[thinwater]

A number of things:

• Biodiesel is defined in commerce and by ASTM D6751. It is the methyl ester of a fatty acid. If people blend oils dirrectly with diesel, that is... something else, but not biodiesel.
• Diesel does not solidify, it gels, as the wax precipitates. Just nomenclature, I know, but If I called your mainsheet "that white rope" you'd groan.
• The gel point of biodiesel depends on both the base diesel and what oil is used to make it. Chicken fat and beef tallow are cheap but gel early. Corn oil is in the middle. Rape seed, soy bean, and olive oil, considerably colder.
• Note that ASTM D4751 does not specify the cloud point, only "report." This needs to be set by local regulators to suit the climate. But yeah, below freezing it's an issue.

I've done some lab work on bug growth in diesel and biodiesel (I was on the virgin side) and it seemed that bio was different, but not actually much worse. Keep it dry and use a biocide and you should be fine either way. I actually wanted to see bad results, but that is not what we saw. Had it been provable, it is highly unlikely an ASTM standard would have been adopted.