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Old 17-05-2020, 03:49   #76
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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I think the choice may be predicated on who is going to work on the engine, if your doing the work why not Beta, but if you have all your work done there sure are a lot of Yanmar dealers.
Parts wise, it’s a new zero time engine, how many parts do you think your going to need. Shouldn’t really need any for a decade.
I have spares for most everything onboard and knock on wood haven’t ever used a single one. In the last 5 years only Yanmar part I have used is a couple of hoses and that only because they were 30 years old, still working, but they had gotten hard.

I would pick the easiest one to change and least expensive, I wouldn’t spend much more for either one, I think they are both good from what I have seen.

If I ever repower, I hope not, but if I do Its going to a bigger as in more HP motor, not for the speed, but for a more relaxed cruising RPM and noise.
Haven't you ever changed your impeller?
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Old 17-05-2020, 04:44   #77
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

"This is fundamentally wrong. A diesel engine must work hard. It should run between 75-85% WOT rpm under a normal day.

If you run your diesel at 40% WOT rpm, this is far from efficient."

This misconception is common about diesels .

The engine needs a good load but WOT is not the measuring point , the RPM the engine is operating at is the concern.

If a boat needs say 25 HP to cruise a 35HP engine would be fine .

The hassle is many boats will have a far larger engine 50? 75? hp installed.

If one uses the engine tables from the Mfg a larger engine will produce that required 25hp at much lower RPM than WOT , say 1500 -1600RPM.

By selecting a cruising prop that would allow a bit more than 25HP to be created at 1600 the 80% rule would work fine.

The engine would have a proper load , be quiet , efficient and not under loaded and slobber .

The danger of course is operating a WOT would be an overload , the cure is very simple , a throttle stop that allows the engine to run a bit higher than cruise for heavy weather .

Plan B would be an EGT gauge to observe how hard the engine is actually working

New EGT gauges from the auto world are about $125.00 and are installed with simple wires from the sender to the gauge , no special cap tube is needed.

A larger than is required engine operating at low RPM is a delight to be onboard if it has a cruising prop.

!500 RPM a delight to hear, compared to 2200- 2600.
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Old 18-05-2020, 06:25   #78
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

I was also between a Beta and a Yanmar until I went to the FLL boat show last Nov. and saw the Nanni. It is a Kubota engine marinized by Nanni. The price was excellent and the service has been impeccable. Call Raul Acosta (954) 213-8537 great guy and I am sure you won't be disappointed by the engine or the price. I am in South Florida if you want to come and see it on my boat.
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Old 18-05-2020, 11:05   #79
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

Somethings to consider with Beta, No common rail electronics on sailboat size engines, this was the case when I purchased mine two years ago, the kubota tractor part numbers are the same as the Beta numbers, this makes purchasing the non marinized parts easier and cheaper than other manufacturers, iirc Some manufactures use different part numbers for their Marine engine parts, making it a pita to track down non marinized parts outside of their dealer network, and their pricing structures reflect this. Just somethings to consider for post purchase maintenance costs.

Fair winds,
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Old 18-05-2020, 13:48   #80
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

Mitsubishi also has some nice marine diesels

Boat Engines - Solé Diesel
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Old 19-05-2020, 10:33   #81
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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That's as controversial as the anchor threads. There are two camps firmly entrenched with their opinions and both sides have plenty of anecdotal reasons why. That's why I personally dont think it matters but might lean towards operating at a lower load, not necessarily RPM.
With Diesel engines I go by torque range. Gives the best efficiency, less engine wear and a lot less noise.. Of course there are also some prop considerations involved.
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Old 19-05-2020, 11:35   #82
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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Mitsubishi also has some nice marine diesels

Boat Engines - Solé Diesel
Yes, You are absolutely right and many marine engine brands are using them as a base engine for conversion. I am sure many around here would be surprised.
Due to this fact I might even inclined to say that parts are easier and cheaper to come by then with the Kubota engines.
In general the rest all depends on what kind of quality all those marine brands used to do their conversions, .... to cover up their trails to suck You in the marimafia $$$ world.

But check for Yourself and get Your own opinion.

Of course all those brands use the same parts for the base engine and also the mechanics can do a great job for a much better price. Might be helpful to well come the man with a six pack on the boat. He works with the Mitsubishi work shop manual and knows his way around in the labyrinth of the fake parts numbers.

https://det-mitsubishi.com/en/applications

The rest is ... donīt make too much noise..... and...
Ricky, DONīT loose the number
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Old 20-05-2020, 02:32   #83
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

Funny the Sole is mentioned. That's the engine I've got lying in a million bits in my garage at home at the moment. Sole obfuscate the part numbers and the particular Mitsubishi engine is available in a wide range of OEM variants where even pistons can have different specifications, apparently. Quoting the serial number on the engine does no good because it doesn't come up on general systems if my enquiries with third parties are anything to go by. Compounding this, the engine isn't used in a wide spread of machines (where I am at least) so isn't overly popular in general and this limits sources of spare parts.

Of course the other issue when a supplier plays silly buggers with part numbers is twofold. The first issue is that the inflated pricing can kill repairs. The additional cost of $1200 needed for two engine mount brackets and a damper plate pushed this engine beyond the cost of economical repair. The second is that it can take a few weeks or more to get a part to arrive from overseas that may be available from a faster supplier, but with no direct reference between part numbers it can be hit and miss if the local part will actually fit.

It's a shame, because a new replacement Sole is a boat buck cheaper for me than the Beta and it will slot right in and is a more powerful motor to boot.
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Old 20-05-2020, 03:12   #84
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

So you’ve decided Beta? Good choice...
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Old 20-05-2020, 05:15   #85
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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So you’ve decided Beta? Good choice...
You'd think. This stuff is starting to do my head in.

I had a light bulb moment at dinner time. After digesting the Sole / Mitsubishi comments written earlier I just realised that I have a complete spare engine, gearbox and marinisation parts. All from an engine with less than 200 running hours. This means parts are not something I'm likely to need anytime real soon with potentially my own personal wrecking yard at hand. I ran some numbers through my head; mixing elbow, heat exchanger, starter motor, instrument panel, hoses, new raw water pumps, the heap of spares I have, etcetera. It's worth a fortune and ironically the more expensive the OEM parts are, the more of a fortune I'm sitting on!

To add cherry on top, the Sole guy sent me a price for a new engine a few weeks ago, which I just glossed over at the time because, frankly, it wasn't even going to enter consideration. I had a another look and he quoted list price but with a promise of a discount for being an existing Sole customer. I've sent the email tonight with some questions including show me your best price and if it's good enough...

As much as my heart is with the Beta, I just may have to go with my head in the end (the one that's being done in )
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Old 20-05-2020, 06:06   #86
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
You'd think. This stuff is starting to do my head in.

I had a light bulb moment at dinner time. After digesting the Sole / Mitsubishi comments written earlier I just realised that I have a complete spare engine, gearbox and marinisation parts. All from an engine with less than 200 running hours. This means parts are not something I'm likely to need anytime real soon with potentially my own personal wrecking yard at hand. .............
Hang on, I thought your old engine was too expensive to rebuild, needed too many parts etc?

But now it is complete spare part package?

Clearly I missed something upthread - which is becoming my new normal
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Old 20-05-2020, 06:41   #87
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

What no Westerbeke option??? Hey, mines RED so criteria enough for keeping my w30. But on the other hand, parts appear to be $$$, as my water pump">raw water pump was $625, thankfully no other replacement parts needed x 4 yrs... its a 1978 so yes, oil change requires use of the dipstick tube, but hey....its still RED.
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Old 20-05-2020, 11:00   #88
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Funny the Sole is mentioned. That's the engine I've got lying in a million bits in my garage at home at the moment. Sole obfuscate the part numbers and the particular Mitsubishi engine is available in a wide range of OEM variants where even pistons can have different specifications, apparently. Quoting the serial number on the engine does no good because it doesn't come up on general systems if my enquiries with third parties are anything to go by. Compounding this, the engine isn't used in a wide spread of machines (where I am at least) so isn't overly popular in general and this limits sources of spare parts.

Of course the other issue when a supplier plays silly buggers with part numbers is twofold. The first issue is that the inflated pricing can kill repairs. The additional cost of $1200 needed for two engine mount brackets and a damper plate pushed this engine beyond the cost of economical repair. The second is that it can take a few weeks or more to get a part to arrive from overseas that may be available from a faster supplier, but with no direct reference between part numbers it can be hit and miss if the local part will actually fit.

It's a shame, because a new replacement Sole is a boat buck cheaper for me than the Beta and it will slot right in and is a more powerful motor to boot.
First Step... go to the web page I send, then go to SOLE and find the MODEL CROSS Ref. for Your engine

Nš2
Once You have the equivalent Mitsubishi engine model then You can find all parts Nš in the Mitsubishi parts list

Nš3
Once You have the Mitsuhbishi model Nš check around on this web page who else of all those Brands is using the same model as base engine.

Nš4
Get in contact with a distributor of Your choice in Your area

Nš 5
When ordering parts always use the engine model and never the engine production Nš.
All brands that use Mitsubishi base engines have licence agreements !!!
but they all use the same parts !!!
and they ALL ( agriculture and construction machines, ETC ) like to make money because they need to pay their bills !!!!

Nš6
For orders You need the Mitsubishi MODEL Nš and Mitsubishi Parts Nš
Donīt screw it up !!! Donīt EVER tell them about Your SOLE engine !!!

Nš 7
Invite the man for a discrete beer
Make a deal...get him to work for U off the record. He knows a$$ about this engine, the parts Nš and if You find the right one he will even fix it for U on Your boat.

Nš8
Every other mayor part besides the base engine like pumps, heat exchanger, starter, solenoids, alternator, ETC is most likely available on the open market and You can buy direct or from a distributor. You only need to find out what manufacturer and Model / Parts Nš was used. I am sure many people here on CF will be able to help You with that info.
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Old 20-05-2020, 12:23   #89
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
You'd think. This stuff is starting to do my head in.

I had a light bulb moment at dinner time. After digesting the Sole / Mitsubishi comments written earlier I just realised that I have a complete spare engine, gearbox and marinisation parts. All from an engine with less than 200 running hours. This means parts are not something I'm likely to need anytime real soon with potentially my own personal wrecking yard at hand. I ran some numbers through my head; mixing elbow, heat exchanger, starter motor, instrument panel, hoses, new raw water pumps, the heap of spares I have, etcetera. It's worth a fortune and ironically the more expensive the OEM parts are, the more of a fortune I'm sitting on!

To add cherry on top, the Sole guy sent me a price for a new engine a few weeks ago, which I just glossed over at the time because, frankly, it wasn't even going to enter consideration. I had a another look and he quoted list price but with a promise of a discount for being an existing Sole customer. I've sent the email tonight with some questions including show me your best price and if it's good enough...

As much as my heart is with the Beta, I just may have to go with my head in the end (the one that's being done in )
Well, may be today is Your lucky day.
Here is some flood light and Whipped Cream for the Cherries

Prices include new gearbox and standard instrument panel
https://www.drinkwaard.com/en/marine...arine-engines/

If You wanna go Cherry Picking this is a good place.
https://www.motorencenter.de/industr...tsubishi//?p=1

And if You really want it dirt cheap look around. Thereīs got to be thousands of used Mitsubishi engines around that are in decent shape for a few hundred $$ Nothing $$. Check for the latest LOCK DOWN REBATES
Thatīs what I would do. Donīt worry about the looks. Since RED seems to be a popular colour those days You gonna paint it anyway.
If You can pull this one off itīs gonna be $$HOT$$ Red because now You are a Marine Engine $$ EXPERT $$

In the end itīs all the same with ALL marine engines, no matter what brand.
THEY WILL ONLY LAST IF YOU MAINTAIN THEM !!

Well, I guess You know that by now, RIGHT ?

I asume now You have a loaded shotgun and are prepared to make a sweet deal.

Good Luck
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Old 20-05-2020, 13:44   #90
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Re: BetaMarine or Yanmar. Which would you choose?

The computer printer market is almost a non-profit: they make their money on the ink not the printers. Diesel engines are the same, and have been for a very long time. Back in the 1970's Detroit Diesel Alison was a customer of mine, and they told me then that they were selling the engines at near cost and made their money on parts, specifically rebuild kits; they were not happy about the rise of Taiwanese sources of rebuild kits, to say the least. Basically, if you want to pay so little for a new engine they are going to need to make it up on parts. This is not my preference but it is the way things are.

A few years back I looked into availability of parts from Perkins for the Perkins (Shibauru) engines in the Volvo-Penta offerings to no avail. These engines are sold by Perkins to OEMs like V-P, generator mfgrs, and such - not retail - and they do not support direct retail sales of parts. Just the way it is. But as I have written before, it is the marinizing parts that are most often needing replacement and there is no workaround for those.

Greg
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