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Old 18-06-2020, 11:35   #31
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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Originally Posted by Outlandie View Post
One reason today sailboat do not have gasoline engines is they explode! I was on board a 30' sailboat that did. Cracked vent hose for gas tank. Skipper over filled, Bang!
Which is why you'd need to go over everything having to do with the engine.

A good start would be getting one of the clean rebuilt A4's from Moyers Marine.

I almost bought a 1975 Pearson 10M. It had a great running A4 but the spare parts prices were quite expensive



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Old 18-06-2020, 12:28   #32
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

As long as the compression and low RPM oil pressure is good, it'll probably last forever. I made the mistake of trying to "baby" one on a trip from San Diego to Santa Barbara, running it at 1400 RPM or so. Since there's no center main to supply oil to #2&3 rods, we starved the bearings and wasted the journals.
Moral, if the pressure's low, keep the RPMs up to keep the bottom end lubed.
As to gasoline, what about all the sport fishers with twin Chevy V8s?
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Old 18-06-2020, 12:55   #33
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

This discussion sounds a lot like what car one should buy ? There is no universal answer, the answer is "it depends".
The engine is obsolete and long out of production. So parts are not "readily available" but only from a few specialist places. So, if your need was to sail around the bouys for an evenings fun, that sounds pretty harmless. But go one way down a river system away from home port, friends, all your tools and possibly a place to work, to then have an engine breakdown, that could lead to trouble.
If you decide to go, for sure take a reliable backup outboard and a way to transfer fuel out the tank to the outboard gas tank and a way to add premix if needed and at least you should be safe... I personally can't stand an outboard running at 5000rpm for longer periods and the vibration can make lots of things on the boat buzz and make their own noises.....
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Old 18-06-2020, 14:06   #34
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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But an old diesel may be just as bad. Your boat, your call.

Moyer will sell you a NEW A4 for ~6K. You can't touch any diesel for that. (Oh, and gas boats blow up..... )
Yes, You can... check it out here BRAND NEW with gearbox 5.500 €
That is some 8.400 Canadian at today exchange rate
That includes some 19% VAT that You don´t have to pay when exporting.
So that´s some 6.700 Canadian + tax
Don´t know how much the shipping by " OCEAN FREIGHT " to Canada would be. The weight is aprox 100 kg incl the box. If You are not in a hurry I guess that can´t be that much to kill the deal

https://www.drinkwaard.com/en/marine...itsubishi-l2e/
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Old 18-06-2020, 14:11   #35
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

As you haven't purchased a boat yet, I'd gather information and then make a choice. Do you want an inboard gas engine or a diesel? Maybe an outboard? Do you want a fixed keel or centerboard (shallow draft) sailboat. Do you want to deal with lowering/removing the mast on a sailboat? Some mid-20 foot sailboats are meant to be trailered which usually means shallow draft, and hardware to lower the mast yourself. There are some smaller diesel or outboard powered cruising powerboat designs. Many choices out there.
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Old 18-06-2020, 14:14   #36
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

If I was going to do the loop and maybe go into the Caribbean too and didn’t mind camping slightly I’d go with a C&C Mega 30.
Light, lifting keel, outboard propelled, reasonably priced these days, mast designed to raise and lower.
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Old 18-06-2020, 15:41   #37
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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Would I be foolish to rely on even a well-tended A4 to get me through the loop?

Hello Buddy_Y


Cool trip you have planned


You will find that modern sailboat diesels will get 18-22 horsepower-hours per gallon of diesel with the higher end of the range being turbo diesels. The Atomic 4 will produce 6-7 horsepower-hours per gallon of gasoline. So all things being equal you will need three times the fuel. This has cost implications as well as fuel logistics implications on the loop since as you are aware there are some long stretches where gasoline is unavailable.


The Great Loop being 6000 miles with very little opportunity to sail you'll be running the engine for over 1000 hours which is a significant fraction of the time between overhauls for an Atomic 4.


I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with your plan as long as you start out with an Atomic 4 that is in good condition mechanically and you've thought through the fuel logistics.


People are still buying new ski boats with gasoline inboards. If properly maintained and operated they have a good safety record. More people die falling overboard when relieving themselves at the rail than in fires or explosions related to gasoline powered propulsion.


I myself would choose a larger boat for the loop but we all work within our limitations
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Old 18-06-2020, 15:58   #38
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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OK, I'll bite: exactly what is fantastic about them? They are an antique design, two main bearings (something outdesigned in the model A Ford in the twenties), a carb that drips for entertainment, usually supplied with a direct or near direct drive tranny, so that a tiny, inefficient prop is required... and all that is separate from the issues of poor efficiency and gasoline stored on board.

I had one in a previous boat, my very first inboard engine, and yes, it did ok for my casual, primarily week end sailing/racing purposes. But for a long motor trip, I'd sure rather have an equivalent powered diesel.

::shrug:: I don't know if they are fantastic but I would rather have one than any of the diesels that were being installed in 30' sailboats in the 1970s. Farymann etc. Unlike a 50 year old diesel auxiliary you can get parts for an Atomic 4. They are quite tolerant of impurities in the fuel and run smoothly and quietly.


At least around here there are plenty of 30'-ish 1970s sailboats with Atomic 4s that are economical to purchase and run. The best of them sell for around $10,000, most for less. I see it as an economically problematic size of boat because they are too large for an outboard and so have most of the cost and complexity of a 37'er without the space. He could get a Catalina 30 or something that is newer and has a Yanmar but that would be more expensive and still give him a 20+ year old engine that is going to be a repower candidate if anything goes badly wrong. And repowers typically run close to $20,000 since as noted upthread it is rare that they are drop ins and so stringers mufflers fuel lines battery cables controls etc etc etc all have to be changed around.
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Old 18-06-2020, 16:20   #39
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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::shrug:: I don't know if they are fantastic but I would rather have one than any of the diesels that were being installed in 30' sailboats in the 1970s. Farymann etc. Unlike a 50 year old diesel auxiliary you can get parts for an Atomic 4. They are quite tolerant of impurities in the fuel and run smoothly and quietly.


At least around here there are plenty of 30'-ish 1970s sailboats with Atomic 4s that are economical to purchase and run. The best of them sell for around $10,000, most for less. I see it as an economically problematic size of boat because they are too large for an outboard and so have most of the cost and complexity of a 37'er without the space. He could get a Catalina 30 or something that is newer and has a Yanmar but that would be more expensive and still give him a 20+ year old engine that is going to be a repower candidate if anything goes badly wrong. And repowers typically run close to $20,000 since as noted upthread it is rare that they are drop ins and so stringers mufflers fuel lines battery cables controls etc etc etc all have to be changed around.


You’d pay 20k to drop a 15-25hp diesel into a boat?

Maybe I should change industries
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Old 18-06-2020, 16:34   #40
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

The attached are Beta Marine engine and transmission priced in Jakarta.. Isn't it strange why we have to pay so much for the exact same stuff here in the US ?
Website: http://inboardenginesale.com/beta-marine
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Old 18-06-2020, 16:36   #41
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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The attached are Beta Marine engine and transmission priced in Jakarta.. Isn't it strange why we have to pay so much for the exact same stuff here in the US ?
Website: Beta Marine Diesel For Sale
All day on eBay/craigslist/etc for under 5k.

Or just repower in a better market.

But 20k to repower a 20hp diesel, that makes the entrepreneur inside of me smile
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Old 18-06-2020, 16:42   #42
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

I think you misunderstand, those are brand new engines with transmissions. Free shipping worldwide.
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Old 18-06-2020, 17:02   #43
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Hello Buddy_Y


Cool trip you have planned


You will find that modern sailboat diesels will get 18-22 horsepower-hours per gallon of diesel with the higher end of the range being turbo diesels. The Atomic 4 will produce 6-7 horsepower-hours per gallon of gasoline. So all things being equal you will need three times the fuel. This has cost implications as well as fuel logistics implications on the loop since as you are aware there are some long stretches where gasoline is unavailable.

.....


The theoretical difference in HP-hr/gal is not 6.5:21 it’s around 10:18. Actual fuel consumption by a gas engine is actually about 15-40% higher than a diesel, figure about 25% or so higher


https://www.boats.com/resources/boat...gas-or-diesel/

https://www.boatingmag.com/calculati...l-consumption/


https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...fficiency.html


https://hackaday.com/2019/09/26/the-...-shaky-ground/
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Old 18-06-2020, 17:54   #44
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

The big penalty in fuel burn with a gas engine is at light load. Gas engines lose far more efficiency at light load than diesels. With a small sailboat engine the light load penalty is much less significant.
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Old 18-06-2020, 17:59   #45
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Re: Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

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I think you misunderstand, those are brand new engines with transmissions. Free shipping worldwide.
Just checked it out and website is a dead end but Yahoo shows it as a good site. Definitely worth checking
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