Atomic 4 for sailboat on the Great Loop?

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Buddy_Y

Would I be foolish to rely on even a well-tended A4 to get me through the loop?

We had an A4 in a Cal29 and it was fine. That motor was already at least 10 years old when we bought the boat. Motored long distances under higher stress than you will probably see in your inland trip. 3 trips north from LA to SF, often into 15-25 knot headwinds. We had it for about 15 years. It never overheated. I didn't keep track of it, but I'm sure we put more than 2000 miles on it. Never did any maintenance outside of the normal DIY oil change, carburetor clean and ignition tuneup. I think we had to replace the distributor cap once when it cracked.

You want to do a compression check and bring a new spare carburetor and all ignition components. Oil change equipment, whatever you use. And be careful to keep good ventilation at all times.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, I'll bite: exactly what is fantastic about them? They are an antique design, two main bearings (something outdesigned in the model A Ford in the twenties), a carb that drips for entertainment, usually supplied with a direct or near direct drive tranny, so that a tiny, inefficient prop is required... and all that is separate from the issues of poor efficiency and gasoline stored on board.

I had one in a previous boat, my very first inboard engine, and yes, it did ok for my casual, primarily week end sailing/racing purposes. But for a long motor trip, I'd sure rather have an equivalent powered diesel.

Jim

Yeah, but I think the OP wanted to keep the cost down, I just got that feeling. Gas drips from carb can be a problem if float valve sticks, but like all carbs it needs to have the float valve working correctly. If not, it can be dangerous. On our Cal29 we had a small, inefficient prop (Martec folding type) and we still had no problem moving along at 6 knots at about 3/4 throttle, 6.5 knots full out. OP boat is a bit larger than Cal29, so I'd expect a bit lower speed perhaps.

The main thing I would look for, which I didn't mention in my post, was that if the boat has been operated and stored in fresh water then I would think the chances of corrosion of block would be much less than if it had been in salt water for years.

[Hudson Force]

My first sailboat had a 8 hp one cylinder Palmer so, when I replaced that engine with a rebuilt Atomic Four, I was impressed with it's performance. I continued safely using the gas powered, raw water cooled Atomic Four on my next boat for 13 years until salt water eventually ate through the cooling system and all my MarineTex patches. I ended up with a Yanmar for most of my cruising years, but the Atomic was simple, reliable, and safe when following the rules for fueling and operating a gas inboard.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Why polish a turd?



He’s going to have to pull it to do a proper rebuild, might as well just dump a yanmar in



https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...anmar&_sacat=0

Because it’s not a turd.

[Tingum]

The Atomic 4 will be fine for the loop. Trying to get an Irwin 32 to the Caribbean is a totally different story. Not something I would want to suffer through.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Because it’s not a turd.

How many atomic 4s have been replaced with a diesel?

How many diesels have been replaced with a atomic 4?

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Seems most of the boats that had them now have yanmars/betas/etc

Yet I don’t think anyone ever replaced a Yanmar or anything with a atomic.

There are still upwards of 10,000 sailboats with A4s in them. A quick review of So Cal Craigslist ads for '60s and '70s vintage sailboats shows over half the the listings still using them.

And if you go over to the Moyer Marine Forum, there are several posters who've replaced failed 1 and 2 cylinder diesels with Atomic Fours.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

How many atomic 4s have been replaced with a diesel?

How many diesels have been replaced with a atomic 4?

Given that the A-4 is no longer made then almost certainly more of the first than the second.

But that’s an observation not an argument as to why the OP’s prospective boat motor would not be able to complete the Great Loop.

If prospective engine reliability due to age concerns you too much that’s A reasonable argument.
If you want better fuel economy, that’s reasonable too.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Given that the A-4 is no longer made then almost certainly more of the first than the second.

But that’s an observation not an argument as to why the OP’s prospective boat motor would not be able to complete the Great Loop.

If prospective engine reliability due to age concerns you too much that’s A reasonable argument.
If you want better fuel economy, that’s reasonable too.

And for all those reasons, seems to me if you go to the trouble to pull a atomic out of the boat for any reason, you be nuts to put it back in, especially seeing the price of a comparable rebuilt or super low time yanmar.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

And for all those reasons, seems to me if you go to the trouble to pull a atomic out of the boat for any reason, you be nuts to put it back in, especially seeing the price of a comparable rebuilt or super low time yanmar.

That's more than a little bit off-topic.

One might also argue that doing the Great Loop on ANY 30ish foot sailboat is begging for punishment. The mast has to come down for parts of the trip, so you have to either strap it topsides or ship it to the next point where you can re-step. Without the mast, and the ability to use the main for stability, sailboats are rolly. And on a centerboard boat like the Irwin 32, God help you if the centerboard cable fails.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

That's more than a little bit off-topic.

One might also argue that doing the Great Loop on ANY 30ish foot sailboat is begging for punishment. The mast has to come down for parts of the trip, so you have to either strap it topsides or ship it to the next point where you can re-step. Without the mast, and the ability to use the main for stability, sailboats are rolly. And on a centerboard boat like the Irwin 32, God help you if the centerboard cable fails.

Oh I fully agree, I did some major miles on the ICW when I first got my boat (shakedown / relocation) and I won’t soon do that again.

For a loop, seems a Nordic tug style boat is about ideal from what I gather.

But even then, diesel is the choice power plant.

[rslifkin]

Realistically, for the loop, any powerboat with a cabin layout you're satisfied with, reasonable draft and adequate fuel range is a good fit. Diesel is nice, but not required by any means. And style of boat is more a matter of preference than anything. A sailboat can do it, but there are definitely some compromises.

[warrior 90]

Well being on a tight budget I would say I buy the boat I can afford. A boat with an Atomic 4 is better then NO boat.
There might be better engines but the only good engines are the ones that run and here even many of the good and better engines have their problems.

I recommend making a compression test and checking the raw water system. Everything else is not such a big deal.
If those two basic things of the engine are ok nothing really serious can happen and also if the engine is OK the extended run of such a long trip will show You all the little querks on the way.

However going to the Caribbeans with that engine ?

I would make that decision after doing the Loop. At that point You will know everything about that engine and what You can expect.
You say it´s an older engine...... well that would not be my concern. Much more important is the shape and how it was maintained. If the basics are OK I would give it a good tune up and cleaning and buy some spars before You start Your journey while everything is still relaxed and cheap because You have time. Once You are on the way then situations can get desperate and therefore more expensive.
Another choice You have is once You have the boat till You get going You still have some time and might be able to find a cheap engine and Yanmar is not the only choice. I also like the Westerbeke engines and specially the L2E diesel that is based on an industrial Mitsubishi engine and You can find spares everywhere in the world. Those engines were used in many agriculture and small and medium sized construction vehicles. Therefore also You will not need an expensive marine engine mechanic. Any halfway decent mechanic can fix it. So this would be a really service friendly choice for the Caribbeans.

[Outlandie]

One reason today sailboat do not have gasoline engines is they explode! I was on board a 30' sailboat that did. Cracked vent hose for gas tank. Skipper over filled, Bang!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

And for all those reasons, seems to me if you go to the trouble to pull a atomic out of the boat for any reason, you be nuts to put it back in, especially seeing the price of a comparable rebuilt or super low time yanmar.

Your cost-benefit analysis won’t necessarily match those of others.

Simply upgrading systems on the motor will run $500 or so.

Pulling and rebuilding will be $1500-2500.

Replacement from Moyer about $6k.

Everything up to the Moyer replacement is cheaper than an EBay motor.

And even the Moyer is likely to be the same or cheaper.

Yes there are cheaper Yanmars, the 9hp and 14hp versions. Are they viable replacements for the 30hp A-4? The 9hp probably not, I would happily accept it on my own boat but most folks wouldn’t if only because of resale value lost. The 14hp would probably be OK on the I-32.
That’s $4.5k. But it’s not a drop in motor like the A-4. So you need to replace the engine mounts and possibly the engine beds too, the engine panel, throttle/gearshift, possibly the fuel tank and almost certainly the prop and maybe the engine shaft too.

A used Ebay motor with significant ancillary work needed and a loss of horsepower or an essentially new motor from Moyer that drops in.

Unless the A-4 is on its last legs it’s not a turd, it will do the job with some level of upgrades and continuing maintenance.

If i were pursuing this boat and money were an issue I’d do the basic upgrades to the A-4 (electronic ignition etc) and put an engine mount on the back of the boat for the dinghy outboard. A-4 dies I still have motive power on the river to get to service. That may involve going downstream when I want to go up but I can still affect significant control over where I go.

For that matter, put the motor mount on even if you get a diesel.