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Old 02-08-2021, 04:40   #1
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Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

I had a bad gas of muck growing in the fuel system of my Yanmar 3ym30. I cleaned the tank, the lines, replaced the filters and sent the injection pump for servicing. Replaced the injectors.
Re-installed the injection pump and injectors. Checked the timing (16 +- 1 deg BTDC), bled the filters.
Got the engine started after a few attempts. Ran well from 2,000 RPM to 4,000 RPM, but idelled badly and then would cut out.
Found air at the bleed screw. Bled, same again.
Eliminated everything on the suction side until I had clean fuel from a jerry can feeding directly to the lift pump. Same again.

Checked the oil and found a very high level. 1.5 times full! Not milky. Dropped a drip of oil fluid on paper. A ring appeared, indicating diesel in the oil.

Suspected the lift pump of introducing air and pumping diesel into the oil. Took it off, inspected the diaphragm, maybe fine cracks but no visible oil.

Ordered a replacement lift pump. While waiting for it drained the oil through the dip stick and also via the banjo bolt that hold the dip stick tube to the bottom of the engine.

Installed new lift pump. Re-installed banjo fitting bolt at bottom of engine. Changed oil filter.

Poured one liter of new oil into filler on top of valve cover.

Then went to turn over the engine using a wrench and the crankshaft pulley bolt so as to help distribute the oil. The engine should take 2.8 liters.
Oil level is below dipstick.

Cannot shift the engine clockwise. Anticlockwise unscrews the bolt.
Checked that engine is not in gear.

Maybe the lift pump cam was locking the camshaft in the injection pump.
Removed the new lift pump. Still seized.

Suspected water in cylinders. Maybe syphon via water pump">raw water pump but Seacock was shut after I last ran the engine. Checked muffler anyway. Found drain screw. Opened, very little water trickled out. Muffler was not heavy so discounted that thought.

Took out injectors to ensure that I was not trying to compress fluid, water, diesel, oil, whatever. Still cannot turn crankshaft. Nothing coming out of injector ports.

Suspected injection pump. Maybe the seal went which could account for the diesel in oil, and then maybe the injection pump seized.

Removed the injection pump gear. Crankshaft Still seized.

Considered a stuck starter motor. But that would not seize the engine. Alternator and fresh water pump and raw water pump are belt driven. Eliminated them.

I am left with seized pistons, valve problems or ??

My latest theory is that the engine was running at high revs with unknown to me, oil diluted with diesel. While waiting for the replacement lift pump, the piston rings seized.

My next step is to run freeing oil into the cylinders via the injector ports and let soak for a few days.

Maybe also remove the valve cover and look for bent valve stems.

Please any serious suggestions? I am running out of ideas here.
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Old 02-08-2021, 05:15   #2
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

Wow! My first thought was go back to the starter Bendix, because if it is thrown forward, it could jam the flywheel.

I'm inclined away from the pistons being seized. It's possible, but you don't report overheating, obvious friction, or the like. Ditto on bent valve stems.

I suspect that sucking air and leaking diesel fuel are related.

Is there a lift pump diaphragm in there that could be leaking?

Maybe someone with greater depth on that engine than mine (I've never worked on one) can make sense out of your set of symptoms. You've had a long, frustrating time of it. Hang in there.
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Old 02-08-2021, 05:57   #3
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

Thanks for the advice. Its worth taking off the starter motor to check but even if the starter motor was stuck engaged, i think that the flywheel willjust turn the starter motor.

The diesel in oil. I suspect the lift pump so i replaced it.

I just poured some diesel cleaning agent into the injector ports. Will add more and check daily.
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Old 02-08-2021, 15:12   #4
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Originally Posted by Jack C View Post
Thanks for the advice. Its worth taking off the starter motor to check but even if the starter motor was stuck engaged, i think that the flywheel willjust turn the starter motor.



The diesel in oil. I suspect the lift pump so i replaced it.



I just poured some diesel cleaning agent into the injector ports. Will add more and check daily.


Your injector pump could be the problem, the pump cam box has engine oil in it and is kept separated from the fuel oil in the top section of the injector pump. If a leak occurred on the fuel oil side to the cambox you would definitely get lube oil dilution.
Usually upper cylinder seizure is more related to overheating events and crankshaft bearing seizure is almost exclusively related to loss of lubrication.
If you can move the crankshaft just a little, that can indicate upper cylinder seizure but if the shaft is locked solid with zero endfloat that,s likely a bearing seizure or some other event related directly to the crankshaft.
Take off the oil filter can and open it up then stretch out the filter paper and closely inspect it for metal particles.
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Old 02-08-2021, 16:35   #5
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

Iím just curious about how well the 3YM pushes your 48í yacht .....or is this engine on your generator?
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Old 02-08-2021, 22:56   #6
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
Iím just curious about how well the 3YM pushes your 48í yacht .....or is this engine on your generator?
Excellent Question. It does not.

My 3YM30 is in my Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 36i, a light boat 12,000 lb that was built with resin injection making it strong and light. Still I would be happier with a larger engine than 29HP which on a calm day with the standard prop does not get over 6.5 knots. (maybe I inherited engine problems)

The Mayflower 48' is 38,000 lb and has a rebuilt Perkins Marine 4236 that gives 80-85HP theoretically. A truly magnificent engine. At least in my opinion.
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Old 02-08-2021, 23:42   #7
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Excellent Question. It does not.

My 3YM30 is in my Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 36i, a light boat 12,000 lb that was built with resin injection making it strong and light. Still I would be happier with a larger engine than 29HP which on a calm day with the standard prop does not get over 6.5 knots. (maybe I inherited engine problems)

The Mayflower 48' is 38,000 lb and has a rebuilt Perkins Marine 4236 that gives 80-85HP theoretically. A truly magnificent engine. At least in my opinion.

Sounds too slow to me,
e.g. a berth neighbour with a sister ship to us ( 26ft) with a hull speed of around 6 knts can do 7 knts with a 20 hp kubota.
Whats the sailing speed of yr sun odyssey?
I'd say you guess right thinking you've inherited engine problems.
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Old 02-08-2021, 23:56   #8
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

Truly an enigma.

I'm guessing relatively low hours?

You seem to have eliminated everything it could be, have you thought about things that it 'couldn't' be? How stuck is it, have you put a lot of pressure on the crank bolt or are you being (perhaps overly) careful? If it moves a little bit, is the motion transferred through the engine to the output flange on the transmission?

Given that it ran after you did the work, and providing that there wasn't excessive wear caused by 'X' previously, I seriously doubt that the small amount of running you've done could have caused the engine to suddenly sieze from mechanical wear. Could something have fallen off when removing the pump and fallen into the gear train?

I looked at the parts manual, and nothing stood out.

Have you had a sleep on the problem?
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Old 03-08-2021, 00:01   #9
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Originally Posted by Compass790 View Post
Sounds too slow to me,
e.g. a berth neighbour with a sister ship to us ( 26ft) with a hull speed of around 6 knts can do 7 knts with a 20 hp kubota.
Whats the sailing speed of yr sun odyssey?
I'd say you guess right thinking you've inherited engine problems.
To be fair, I did the test a few years ago, just after buying the boat. The problem may have been that the throttle lever rubber cover was pulled up, extending the length of the lever so that it came up against the bulkhead. So it may not have been at full throttle which would be 3600 rpm.

The sailing schools here, which are also share boat clubs have Delphia34, Benneteau 37 boats powered by the same engine.

They have notices on the binnacle to not exceed 1800 rpm. So when I did my test on my boat I did not realize that I should have been at 3600rpm.

The Yanmar manuals warn against running at low rpm's. This probably is why the sailing schools are frequently replacing engines.

Their basic problem appears to be that they don't read manuals and work according to what they once learned. Probably related to an older diesel that cruised under load at 1800 rpm.

Thanks for the input
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Old 03-08-2021, 01:01   #10
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Truly an enigma.

I'm guessing relatively low hours?

You seem to have eliminated everything it could be, have you thought about things that it 'couldn't' be? How stuck is it, have you put a lot of pressure on the crank bolt or are you being (perhaps overly) careful? If it moves a little bit, is the motion transferred through the engine to the output flange on the transmission?

Given that it ran after you did the work, and providing that there wasn't excessive wear caused by 'X' previously, I seriously doubt that the small amount of running you've done could have caused the engine to suddenly sieze from mechanical wear. Could something have fallen off when removing the pump and fallen into the gear train?

I looked at the parts manual, and nothing stood out.

Have you had a sleep on the problem?
Jim, thanks for the input. Yes I am sleeping on it and not rushing into it.

Regarding hours: The boat was put into service by Sunsail in Greece. Then bought by a broker/surveyor and brought to Israel where it was mostly unused for 2 years, which accounts for the bug in the fuel. The engine hour meter like most of this type is not working. I was told 1800 hours on the engine. The previous owner replaced the clutch cone before I purchase the boat. According to Yanmar this is needed every 500 hours.

How stuck is it? When setting the timing I was easily able to turn the crankshaft in either direction with a wrench. Now anti-clockwise opens the bolt. Clockwise I get tiny movement which is I think tightening the bolt. I am using a bar with a short extension. So not being overly careful. I can measure with a torque wrench but I am sure that it should turn especially with injectors loose.

The running I did was at high revs in neutral, 3 or 4 times, each time about a minute or two. But the oil was diluted by fuel. The engine was not really hot.

The injector gear is now out so a seized injector pump is eliminated. The gearbox was not really used in the testing because the engine stalled when put into gear,forward or reverse. I assume because of the air build up in the fuel line and or starvation of fuel. This I assumed was the lift pump but I am now suspecting the injection pump.

I thought that possibly removing the lift pump and installing a replacement could have seized the injection pump, but now that the injection pump is out, that cannot be the problem.

I am now down to:

Seized pistons. - Spraying penetrating liquids into injectors and waiting

Seized crankshaft bearings - checking old oil and oil filter for metal particles using a powerful magnet and visually.

Stuck starter: - Will remove and try to rotate crankshaft.

Gears jammed: - Will open front cover and inspect. Remove idler gear and check crankshaft. This eliminates camshaft

Gearbox jammed: Gear lever operates easily. Shaft rotates in neutral. No idea of how to test. I guess I will leave it to last.


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Old 03-08-2021, 02:43   #11
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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Jim, thanks for the input. Yes I am sleeping on it and not rushing into it.

Regarding hours: The boat was put into service by Sunsail in Greece. Then bought by a broker/surveyor and brought to Israel where it was mostly unused for 2 years, which accounts for the bug in the fuel. The engine hour meter like most of this type is not working. I was told 1800 hours on the engine. The previous owner replaced the clutch cone before I purchase the boat. According to Yanmar this is needed every 500 hours.

How stuck is it? When setting the timing I was easily able to turn the crankshaft in either direction with a wrench. Now anti-clockwise opens the bolt. Clockwise I get tiny movement which is I think tightening the bolt. I am using a bar with a short extension. So not being overly careful. I can measure with a torque wrench but I am sure that it should turn especially with injectors loose.

The running I did was at high revs in neutral, 3 or 4 times, each time about a minute or two. But the oil was diluted by fuel. The engine was not really hot.

The injector gear is now out so a seized injector pump is eliminated. The gearbox was not really used in the testing because the engine stalled when put into gear,forward or reverse. I assume because of the air build up in the fuel line and or starvation of fuel. This I assumed was the lift pump but I am now suspecting the injection pump.

I thought that possibly removing the lift pump and installing a replacement could have seized the injection pump, but now that the injection pump is out, that cannot be the problem.

I am now down to:

Seized pistons. - Spraying penetrating liquids into injectors and waiting

Seized crankshaft bearings - checking old oil and oil filter for metal particles using a powerful magnet and visually.

Stuck starter: - Will remove and try to rotate crankshaft.

Gears jammed: - Will open front cover and inspect. Remove idler gear and check crankshaft. This eliminates camshaft

Gearbox jammed: Gear lever operates easily. Shaft rotates in neutral. No idea of how to test. I guess I will leave it to last.


An update:

Sprayed a lot of liquid wrench penetrating oil into cylinders. Looks like #2 piston is at the top. It took less fluid. Now waiting.

Stirred the oil that I had drained from the engine with a powerful magnet on a rod. No metal bits in the oil. This is not definitive as the metal bits may have been caught in the filter. Now the challenge is to open the filter without introducing metal bits from opening. Thinking about banging in a big screwdriver and using tin snips? Any other suggestions.

Slackened off the starter bolts almost all the way. Starter is now loose but engine still seized.

What next:

1. Open the old oil filter and check for metal bits.

2. Remove the valve cover and check that valves not seized

3. Remove crankshaft pulley and gear cover. Inspect and remove idling gear. Check if seized. This eliminates camshaft

4. Eliminate gearbox by disconnecting. This is a lot of work but I see no other way to check.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:26   #12
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

In accordance with the KISS principle, I'd pull the valve cover first...
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:05   #13
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

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In accordance with the KISS principle, I'd pull the valve cover first...



Fully agree because it almost sounds like it swallowed a valve or one is stuck open and the piston is against it.
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:15   #14
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

Buy an oil filter cutter. Great tool to have in your toolbox, can be used on all oil filters.
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:20   #15
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Re: Advice Sought. Engine Seized after installing Injection pump

@seizure: I wonder if an engine seizure can even occur after it has been stopped (apart, o0f course, by water entering). Wouldn't an e.s. show up as engine is by itself quickly reducing revs until standstill? Just guessing...
timing gears would jam without a big bang when running? Same with a stuck valve: no nasty sounds?
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