2QM15. Before I go electric...

[bailsout]

Anyone have a lead on finding another Yanmar 2QM15 and tranny? Mostly I need the tranny, a KBW10. Myanmar tells me there are no replacements or much availability of parts. After four flushes with fresh arc it still slips at 1300 rpm even without the remote cable disconnected and shifted at the case. Good time to go electric?

[sailorchic34]

If you search on KANZAKI KBW10 you should find a rebuilt transmission for $750.

The poor sailor solution would be to swap the reverse friction disks for the forward friction disks. This as the reverse plates are the same size and not nearly used.

But...

Part of the issue is ATF in the stores now a days is it is not at all what it was way back when the KANZAKI KBW10 was built. The KANZAKI KBW10 transmission clutch disks look surprisingly like old honda motorcycle clutch disk assemblies. I would even bet money that one could research it and find a cross reference to a honda clutch disk set that might be a direct fit. They did not design the KANZAKI KBW10 from the ground up but would have sourced parts from existing manufactures.

If it was my boat, I would try straight 30 weight oil rotella T30 first, which will be similar in viscosity to the old DEX I/II. Least before doing anything else. Might fix it. might not, but you'll only be out of a few dollars to try.

I had a old 71 honda 450 and the transmission hated the newer oils and would slip like a sun of a gun. Went to straight 30W and no slipping.

[Wotname]

I was surprised this thread did not get more replies so I will add my thoughts belatedly.

Assuming your engine still has a good life expectancy, then I would investigate repairing the transmission in more detail.

While I'm not familiar with the KBW10, I am familiar with similar Kanzaki transmissions as fitted to the Y & S series engines; I understand the QM series transmissions are almost the same.

They are constant mesh with a single plate mechanical clutch, therefore any slippage can only occur when the clutch plate friction material is worn.

As sailorchic suggested, a poor man's fix would simply to reverse the clutch plate.

Even if a replacement clutch plate is not available, there is a good chance that the old one can be rebuilt but you would have to find someone who specialises with friction materials.

There is not much more in the transmission that will wear. The gears are straight cut and the ball bearings are simple. In the unlikely event the bearing need replacing, they will be available at most bearing specialist shops.

[fryewe]

I went through this same exercise in late 2016. I took two approaches. First, I did my homework and talked to various mechanics who were familiar with the transmission. 3K$ to overhaul.

I talked to Yanmar. I ordered the ahead element friction disks and steel plates and new bearings. Got a friend who is a tractor/farm machinery mechanic to look over my shoulder while I worked and replaced only the ahead element pats. 600$. I also bought an engine/transmission from a sailor who had a failed engine...the transmission was fine at the time of failure. I think I gave him 400$. That purchase also included a pile of spares...starter, alternator, injectors, fuel injection pump, water pumps, zincs, filters, etc.

The 2QM15 is too good of an engine to toss due to KBW10 forward element failure.

I’d query the local marine repair shops and those along the left coast to try to find a 2QM15 out of a boat that recently repowered. Absent finding one, I’d spring for the parts and rebuild. Do you have the service manual? If not, it’s available free on line. Do a search. If you need parts numbers and quantities that I used, PM me and I’ll provide.

Good luck.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by fryewe

The 2QM15 is too good of an engine to toss due to KBW10 forward element failure.

I agree, I would rather have a old QM series then a GM or newer series yanmar. Old school, low RPM design engine that should last a LONNNNGGGGG time.

[bailsout]

Thank all of you that responded. I hear all of you and will proceed accordingly. I'll start pulling the engine and tranny this weekend. I 've put a lot into this engine already and wasn't liking the idea of giving up on her. You're right Sailorchic, they are very hearty.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by bailsout

Thank all of you that responded. I hear all of you and will proceed accordingly. I'll start pulling the engine and tranny this weekend. I 've put a lot into this engine already and wasn't liking the idea of giving up on her. You're right Sailorchic, they are very hearty.

So how did you make out, bailsout?

As an electric boat owner, I think I should tell you that you should exhaust ever possible remedy at replacing, repairing, or improvising your transmission before replacing a perfectly good diesel with electric. You don't sound like a person who would enjoy electric just for the sake of going electric. Electric repowering for a DEAD diesel is another thing, and is worth weighing the pros and cons, especially in a sailboat.

[bailsout]

Thanks, GM. It’s not going to be easy but I will continue to look for a way to not throw away a good running diesel but I’m really pissed with Yanmar to not provide parts or service for their old stuff.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

So how did you make out, bailsout?

As an electric boat owner, I think I should tell you that you should exhaust ever possible remedy at replacing, repairing, or improvising your transmission before replacing a perfectly good diesel with electric. You don't sound like a person who would enjoy electric just for the sake of going electric. Electric repowering for a DEAD diesel is another thing, and is worth weighing the pros and cons, especially in a sailboat.

Good post, Growler. I gotta say, if all the electric boat enthusiasts were as reasonable and practical as you are there would be far less controversy here on CF regarding electrics, so good onya!

Jim

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by bailsout

Thanks, GM. It’s not going to be easy but I will continue to look for a way to not throw away a good running diesel but I’m really pissed with Yanmar to not provide parts or service for their old stuff.

Planned obsolescence, throwaway society, yadda. Sadly it appears that Yanmar is following modern business practices in order to compete. You might even think about a standalone transmission. Or even a simple reduction gearbox like the Baldor I was using for my electric motor. Back in the day I used to occasionally see boats with no reverse. Still easier than sailing into a slip! Maybe buy a whole junk engine. Probably a 50% chance the transmission is still serviceable. You might try a couple of car transmission shops. They might be able to renew the bare plate or improvise something.

If you just get sick and tired of looking at your Yanmar you will of course be welcome into the electric club. But there is another option, too... a Beta Diesel. Beta is totally okay with DIY installers. The engines are nothing more than marinized Kubota tractor engines, so most parts you get at tractor prices, not marine prices. The new ones are completely serviceable from the front end and even have a pump attachment for oil changes. I considered one, myself, before deciding to take the path less traveled. The Beta 10 is a low speed little engine and I bet it would last a long time. The 14 is I think just a higher speed Beta 10. And of course they have bigger models up to I think the 50HP range.

[Seman]

There is a Utube video showing how to re-surface the slipping cones with some valve grinding paste. Worked on my KM2P-1

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Seman

There is a Utube video showing how to re-surface the slipping cones with some valve grinding paste. Worked on my KM2P-1

Unfortunately this won't help the OP, his transmission does not have cone clutches, rather it has a double sided conventional clutch plate - one side for FWD and the other for AFT.

I still think it must be possible to have new friction material fitted to it (somehow / somewhere). At least I would like to think so... see post #4.

[bailsout]

I have yet to pull the gearbox as I was able to complete enough of my H28 project to sail her and I've been neglectful regarding my old boat. I continue to search for a replacement box or rebuilder. I will post when I learn something. Thanks again GM.

[Lepke]

Most big cities have a business that relines clutch, brake and other friction devices. It's usually cheaper and better friction material.